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Message Board > Sewing Machines > Sewing machine needles for Berninas ( Moderated by Sharon1952, EleanorSews)

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Sewing machine needles for Berninas
Natasha B
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Natasha B
AUSTRALIA
Member since 10/14/06
Posts: 610
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Date: 4/14/10 9:56 PM

I recently was given a Bernina Aurora 440 QE and bought some Bernina SM needles at that time. I have dozens of Klasse and Schmetz SM needles in my stash and wanted to know if I can use those in the Bernina? Any problems or suitability issues?

TIA
NatashaB

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Natasha
Sydney, Australia

Carol Mendoza
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Carol Mendoza  Friend of PR
Intermediate
LA USA
Member since 5/1/06
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In reply to Natasha B


Date: 4/14/10 10:02 PM

I have that machine and I've used the other needles and haven't noticed a problem. I have used both Klasse and Organ.

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Bernina 730E; 440QE; Vintage 121; Babylock Evolution

QuiltSewSewSue
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QuiltSewSewSue
Intermediate
AUSTRALIA
Member since 4/28/08
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In reply to Natasha B


Date: 4/14/10 10:03 PM

Same here - I have never bought Bernina needles - I alwys use the other brands.

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Sue (Toowoomba Qld)
Love to sew....

http://quiltsewsewsue.blogspot.com/

skae
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skae  Friend of PR
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Date: 4/14/10 10:06 PM

same here too. I use other brands. They work just fine.
-- Edited on 4/14/10 10:06 PM --

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Galatians 5:22-23 The Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, and self-control. There is no law against such things as these

Soolip
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Soolip
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Date: 4/14/10 10:07 PM

As long as they are 15x1 you should be fine.

Natasha B
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Natasha B
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Date: 4/14/10 10:16 PM

What quick advice! Thank you, you all said exactly what I wanted to hear!

NatashaB

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Natasha
Sydney, Australia

Betakin
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Betakin
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Date: 4/15/10 2:30 AM

Whenever I see posts about Bernina needles it reminds me of a news letter that I rec'd years ago from my local Bernina dealer..that is now closed. The news letter had an article about older Bernina models and their needle systems. How a new hook might need to be installed to accomodate some newer needle systems.
The older machines in the article included the 530, 730, 801 and 830. I believe these older models take the 705B needles.
The article stated when you run out of these 705B needles to replace them with the 130/705H needles and you can use them up to a size 90 without damage to the machine. It also mentioned a warning about using specialy needles like metafil and Jean's needles and not using a larger size than a 90 in these older models.
This article also stated to change the hook system in these machines so they could use the full range of 130/705H needles and then throw away the 705B needles and there would be a charge of $100 for parts and labor.

I have never owned a Bernina or one of these greatly loved older models (that uyou will not be able to pry from the owners cold dead hands) but this info might not be known by those that are interested in purchasing one of them.

goodworks1
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In reply to Betakin


Date: 4/15/10 2:15 PM

Quote: Betakin
Whenever I see posts about Bernina needles it reminds me of a news letter that I rec'd years ago from my local Bernina dealer..that is now closed. The news letter had an article about older Bernina models and their needle systems. How a new hook might need to be installed to accomodate some newer needle systems.

The older machines in the article included the 530, 730, 801 and 830. I believe these older models take the 705B needles.

The article stated when you run out of these 705B needles to replace them with the 130/705H needles and you can use them up to a size 90 without damage to the machine. It also mentioned a warning about using specialy needles like metafil and Jean's needles and not using a larger size than a 90 in these older models.

This article also stated to change the hook system in these machines so they could use the full range of 130/705H needles and then throw away the 705B needles and there would be a charge of $100 for parts and labor.



I have never owned a Bernina or one of these greatly loved older models (that uyou will not be able to pry from the owners cold dead hands) but this info might not be known by those that are interested in purchasing one of them.

very interesting.

I've always used all of those needles, 705B and 705H (Schmetz and Klasse) metafil and Jeans and sizes through 120 in my old 830 and my newer 1090 without any noticeable problems in the stitch quality...

I do have one of the 830s that was built toward the end of the 830 model years, so maybe things changed?

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blog: goodworks1.wordpress.com

Betakin
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Betakin
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In reply to goodworks1


Date: 4/15/10 6:27 PM

This article was included with an alert to not being able to obtain parts any longer for some of the older models..and I am sure the newsletter was sent to bring customers in to buy new models. LOL.

I don't think that the stitch "quality" of using the different needles was in question but I think that there was more concern of machine "damage" if using a certain needle and size because of the design of the older type of hook in these machines.
This article says these different needles can be used but stresses more than once not to use more than a size 90 needle in them. It does seem though that any such problems can be overcome with a hook change.
I thought the article interesting being that it came from a home town Bernina dealer here for many many years and known to have wonderful techs. They have since retired.

RadarRadiance
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RadarRadiance
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Date: 4/15/10 7:22 PM

I went through that with my 830 to a 930 Bernina. The 830 took 705B for the best stitch because of were the hook was positioned. You could run 705H with out damage to the 830 but you couldn't use the 705B with my 930 because it didn't have a scarf.
I kept a holder post from Bill Holman who explained it perfectly:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally, there was just the 705 needle, which was basically the same as the 15X1. Pfaff came up with the idea that you could "scoop out" a section of the needle above the eye, (we call this the scarf) so that you could set the hook in closer to the needle. The stitch is formed when the friction between the fabric and thread on the "back side" of the needle during the first part of its upward stroke, causes a loop to open, thru which the hook should pass. Naturally, the larger the loop, the less likely the hook is to miss it. The size of the loop is from the needle surface to the extended thread, so if there is "less needle" there (the scarf) the loop is bigger, and the hook has a better chance to catch it and not drop a stitch. Pfaff called this needle the 130R, and it was basically the same as the 705 or 15X1, but with a scarf. It wasn't long before most of the manufacturers recognized this as an advantage, and Schmetz soon came out with the original 705H, which was virtually the same as the 130R, would work fine in the Pfaff, and also in machines like the Elna and Husqvarna, as long as their hooks were set in close to take advantage of it.However, the original 705H needle did not work well in the Berninas, or any other machines with transverse oscillating hooks. The problem was that the oscillating hook makes one half rotation each way, per stitch, equaling one rotation per stitch in distance traveled. The rotary hooks make two revolutions per stitch, so they travel at twice the speed. As a result, the "timing error" on a transverse oscillator is twice as great as that in a rotary. You can see this by watching where the hook intersects the needle at LCR positions in a rotary and an oscillator. At the extreme L & R position, the point of ntersection on the oscillator is twice as far from the optimum spot on the needle as it is on the rotary. The scarf in the 130R & the original 705H needle was just long enough to ccommodate the rotary hooks at their extreme ZZs, so if you tried to set the machine to use one in an oscillator, the tip of the hook would graze the needle at the top and bottom of the scarf. This is where the old story came from that the H needle would damage the Bernina hook, and some people still believe this, even though this shape scarf went out, probably about 1970 or before. Schmetz was anxious for Bernina to be able to take advantage of this technology, so they elongated the scarf to allow clearance for the slower moving oscillating hook.Now came something really "off the wall". Somebody high up at Bernina got the idea that the H on the 705H needle stood for Husqvarna, so they did not want these H needles in their machines. In fact, they insisted that Schmetz continue to make the old non scarf needles and "give them a letter too", so they became the 705B. As a result of these changes, if the Bernina's hook is set in close to take advantageof the scarf, the 705H is definitely the better needle, but youdefinitely should not use the 705B in these machines. If the hook is not set in close, the "far side of the loop" is at the same position on the H or the B, so it really should not make any difference which one you use.Don't feel bad if you have to read this a few times before youunderstand it. Some people have been in the business for a lifetime and still do not.I will be happy to answer additional questions.Bill Holman
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