Date: 7/27/10 3:42 PM

I'm starting to do some research on upgrading my machine. Currently I have 2 that I'm looking at the pfaff expression or the bernina 440. Price wise the pfaff has it beat as well as having more arm space. but the review on the bernina are good too.

So if you were to go shopping again where would you go?

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Reply to rawheid
Date: 7/27/10 4:24 PM

I had a pfaff expression 2036 and it would not do FME. I went on a course with a local aartist and she could not get it to do it either - it wouldn't move smoothly, it tended to go in small lines when I was trying to do vermicelli.

I have bought a Bernina 707 (vintage) which absolutely loves it. I also don't have to worry about using a more expensive machine so heavily.

The Bernina 440 is great for FME, I tried it at a show earlier in the year. I would have bought it, but I wanted a machine which did better buttonholes than the 440 could offer.

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Clare

Machines: Juki F600, Juki 654 serger, Bernina 350 for art work, Janome Coverpro 1000cp barely used

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Reply to rawheid
Date: 7/27/10 6:06 PM

My suggestion would be to take a sample sandwich to a dealer and play.

All machines behave differently and you need to find one that suits you. I have 2 Husqvarna machines that FM very nicely even though they are not 'quilting' machines as such.

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Lynny - Geelong, Australia

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Date: 7/27/10 6:18 PM

From personal experience and from seeing many students working on both machiens, the 440 is far more reliable for fmq than the new pfaff quilt expression line. Firstly it has a vertically positioned bobbin that makes the incidence of eyelashes on the back of the work for beginners learning to quilt far less than any top loading machine all because of the way the bobbn unspools in a vertical position in the bobbin case. There is less tension on the thread which when combined with rapid hand movements out of time of the mahcine's stitching, on a top loader where the bobbin thread has to make a bend around the side of the bobbin itself to exit the throat plate, it adds tension and when combined with less skilled movement of the hands when quilting cna produce pulling of the stitches at the change of sewing direction. A skilled quilter can often manage a top loader with practice but a beginner can find it more problematic. I teach fmq for a living and have seen this phenomenon again and again and again regardless of brand of machine.
The old Pfaff expression line had vertical positioned bobbins with the seperate bobbin case like the Berninas offer and those are different to the new line of Pfaffs.
There are so really bad reviews on some models in that line from pfaff, I personally had a really bad machine that needed considerable work back with the company and was never right for fmq even thought it was fixed for regular sewing...needless to say it is gone. I now use Aurora 440's fro fmq and couldn't be happier.
I have also had for many years a straight stitch only semi industrial that offers a tad more space than the Aurora but it is far noisier, the manufacture of the machine is poorer quqlity- but it was very inexpensive at the time. I have it for quilting customer's work on particularly if they bring unusual fabrics like thick upholstery or duck canvas that they want quilted. That happens! It is touch as boots and I'd rather that machine take the brunt of any wear and tear of super tough items purely so I am not without my Berina for the time it takes to service if the quilting of those tough items causes anything to be thrown out of balance that I cannot fix myself.
Before I had a Bernina- and was fmq on another high end domestic brand, this machine was great and easy to quilt, it has a big foot which many beginners find gives lots of stability-I have seen new students drag these heavy beasts in to classes.
My recommendation to them actually for preference is the 440 Aurora with or without the BSR foot or number 9 foot, or other free motion foot available- there are different sorts that can be picked according to situation or prefrence., or 430 with the darning foot or BSR retro fitted because I like the way the stitches are so very precise, and the functionis the machine offer a quilter are more extensive in this model as well as being able to do more than a straight stitch for other projects.
After all a straight stitch machine can do only that, and depending on what you do, that isn't a problem for many dressmakers, but quilters often like to do applique and want zig zag, picot, blanket stitches and decorative sttiches available.
And Bernina has the temporary altered memory that the Pfaff doesn't have- you can save things to the new expression line memory but it is quite a few steps to call on each saved stitch each time you want to use them. Bernina remembers what you did to a given stitch setting when you alter it, so when you switch over to another stitch, and then go back to the initially used one, it remembers exactly how you set the width and length or combination, and in addition there is a memory you can program stitcdh combinations into.
I just think for the money you get far more reliability and quality in a proven system, with Bernina. The Aurora was released in 2004 and really is a most perfect system for the needs of so many quilters- there is a reason the top quilters in the world are in such high numbers choosing Bernina. The Pfaff large harp machines are still having problems fixed one by one, and they haven't ironed them all out yet. My dealership says eventually they will probably get on top of all the things that do not work reliably at present but that it will take time. Almost as if in their rush to release it to market they ommitted to do enough testing with real users of the machine according to quilter's demands.
But of course this is my personal experience and preference here, I would suggest you go and test, and test and test the two machines out side by side. Don't let price necessarily be the determining factor- as I did some time ago and therefore chose the Pfaff- only to a matter of months turn around and have to sell off the Pfaff that was unreliable and buy the Aurora I nearly did before. Decide which is for you by the way you freemotion, the features you want, how the machine feels. Look at the back of your stitches.

The Aurora is far less sensitive to threads particularly specialty threads. Setting a perfect tension is easier than setting on the pfaff where the tension setting is inside a menu. The Bernina has a dial within easy reach to fine tune the tension. No digging around in menus each time to adjust. Test your tricky fibres in both machines and sew at speed- you will soon discover which one meets your needs.

One more thing, if you ever need to piee a narrower stitch plate is the way to go such as the 5mm stitch plate supplied on the 440. The Pfaff QE4 has a 9mm slot and piecing on this is horrible, fabric disappears into the hole and can easily jam the machine. You can spent additional money for a straight stitch plate for piecing but even then the quarter inch foot supplied doesn't fit well on the feed dogs on the Pfaff. You can select to move the needle sideways and use the regular wide foot but then you loose markings ahead and behind the needle that are useful for setting in fabric patches with inset seams.
I would suggest you also check out by googling Carolina Patchworks as she has a hugely interesting post and a couple of hundred comments from users of the QE4 where everyting is laid bare. Check this out before you go and test drive.
Keep your eyes wide open if you are after all that considering the Pfaff and bear in mind that not al the problems encountered have yet been completely solved across the board.

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Bernina 820, 440, 380, 215, 807 vintage mechanical, 800DL overlocker, 009DCC cover and chain
Quilt and sew like there is no tomorrow!

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Date: 7/27/10 8:44 PM

I just wanted to add that I've used several brands at all price points and almost any Bernina new or old from TOL on down FM's beautifully for me. They don't have the larger harp area tho. I used my Singer 15-91 very successfully and can also recommend the Juki 98Q as well as my Elna 7300. I continue to hear loads of negative comments re the new Pfaffs. Vertical bobbin arrangements seem to work best for FM even though my 7300 is very good.

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Date: 7/27/10 10:32 PM

i have the Bernina 630 with the BSR, a stitch-regulating foot for free motion. It's not required, but sure makes it fun fun fun! and all the stitches come out the same size. I think the BSR can be used on the 440, but the buttonhole on the 630 is SO EASY. Just hold your button up to the LCD screen, adjust the size on the screen display to match your button width, and your buttonhole is ready to sew!

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Date: 7/27/10 10:36 PM

I agree with Quilting Queen that a vertical hook is wayyyy more forgiving than a horizontal one. However, I have long since come to the conclusion that I am much much much tooooo cheap to ever purchase a Bernina.

I quilt on Singers. For many years, I FM'ed almost exclusively on a $20 1904 27 treadle. OK, it's not a vertical hook machine, in fact it has no hook at all. But its stitches are formed in a vertical plane, which is close enough. A month or two back, I decided to rest the 27 and switch a 15-96 into this treadle cabinet. It's working even better - fewer skipped stitches, and better mileage on my needles. Oh, well you know the old saying "you get what you pay for".... The 15 cost me more than 3x what I paid for the 27 ($70). I'm currently quilting the largest quilt I've ever attempted - about 95" square.

Jennifer in Calgary

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Reply to rawheid
Date: 7/28/10 0:40 AM

It seems like you are pretty set on deciding between the pfaff or the bernina. But if you wanted to think outside the box you might want to look at Janome. I have a Janome 6600 that I purchased because of the large harp space and also because I was getting a lot of machine for a price within my budget. I think the harp space is 9 inches, but you would have to check their website for more specific details. I have never had a problem with tension, or for that matter any problems with this machine. Janome just came out with a new machine with an 11 inch harp space called the Horizon 7700. I've only had my machine for about 2 years, so not thinking about upgrading at this point.

If I had to do it again, I might consider looking at a Juki. They are also supposed to have a large harp space. The only problem for me with Juki is that it is a dedicated straight stitch machine and I also like to do some garment sewing and would have to have a second machine to do that which I think is why I didn't really research them.

Hope this helps,
Stacey

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Date: 7/28/10 11:44 AM

I opted to keep my general purpose machine and bought a straight-stitch machine just for quilting and free-motion embroidery. I chose the Brother PQ1500S, but I also test-drove a Janome 1600 and the Juki TL98Q. They were all great and in the end I chose the one that was from the dealer I liked the best. In addition to fabulous free-motion work these straight-stitch machines also plow through thick layers like a Jeep through a snowdrift.

I heart my PQ1500.

I've also recently acquired a vintage 15-91 which is well-reputed for free-motion work, but he needs a little more cleaning up and I haven't put him through his paces yet.

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Tess
Bernina 150QE (2, actually), Brother PQ1500S, Elna 945 serger, Janome CP1000
Vintage Singers: 221 Featherweight (2), 15-91, 201-2, 503

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Date: 7/28/10 1:10 PM

My Bernina 1090 is the best for quarter-inch piecing. But it does not hold a candle to the Janome Horizon for free-motioning. In fact, the Janome 6500 that I traded for the Horizon was better at FMQ than the Bernina. The Bernina, which has a front-loading oscillating hook, would jam occasionally. The Janomes are both rotary hook, top-loading machines.

Granted, the Bernina is a 1995 era model. The narrow feed dogs are what make it great for quarter inch work. The Janomes have the newer, wide feed dogs which mean that the quarter-inch seam allowance doesn't hit the right-hand dog when the needle is centered. This results in a bit of a struggle keeping the seam line accurate.

I'm rather surprised at the opinions stating that the vertical bobbin is better than the top-load bobbin for FMQ. I never even thought about that making a difference. Maybe it does, I'm not an engineer. I can only say that I've had a lot better results with the Janomes and they both have the top-load bobbin set-up. Absolutely perfect tension and no "eyelashes" using the Horizon.

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Life is Too Short To Take Seriously!

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