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Forum > Sergers, Coverstitch and Blindhemmers > El x 705 vs. EL x 705 CF ( Moderated by CarolynGM, Deepika)

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El x 705 vs. EL x 705 CF
Dealer told me BL needed CF, but he sold me 705, huh?
purplebouquet
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purplebouquet
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Date: 11/11/11 5:39 PM

I've had problems with my BL Evolve, so I took it in for service. Among other things, he told me I was using the wrong needles. I have used Organ EL x 705 needles for quite some time, but he said I needed the EL X 705 CF made by Schmetz. I checked the manual and it said Organ or Schmetz EL x 705 CF. Then he sold me a pack of Schmetz needles EL x 705, no CF.

Huh? I am very confused. Are there CF needles out there, does it really make a difference?

Claudia

sewsally
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sewsally  Friend of PR
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Date: 11/11/11 6:02 PM

What does your manual specify?

I have a Baby CS and use the EL needles.
Don't know what the CF means.

Betakin
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Betakin
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In reply to sewsally


Date: 11/11/11 7:02 PM

I think that the CF needles mean Chrome Finish. The regular ELx705 I think are nickel plated.

According to the Allbrands site, these Schmetz needles are the flat shank type that are like the Organ HAx1sp and 15x1sp and Singer 2022 that come with sergers from Asia.

It is important to use the correct needles for your sergers because you can actually damage a looper if using the wrong size or type. My old Babylock used round shank commercial type needles that were rather difficult to put in the right way and not put in backwards.
The ELx705 needles are the recommended needle for coverhem. It is my understanding that Schmetz made the EL needles originally for Elna. I use Schmetz ELx705 needles for both my Elna combo coverlock serger and my other brand basic serger. The needles came with both when new.

-- Edited on 11/11/11 7:27 PM --

annsew65
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annsew65
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Date: 11/13/11 2:46 AM

These are evidently new on the market - at least I haven't noticed them before. I've used the EL705 for years on my Elna 925 - it's the only needle to consistently get a good coverhem stitch. From doing a little reading on Google, these are chrome finished to help reduce the heat generated during serging. I just received a new supply of the Organ EL705 from a vendor on Ebay. I haven't used them yet, but I've been using Organ needles on my Janome 11000 and have had great experience with them - as good as Schmetz in my estimation. It would be interesting to see if the chrome finish does any better at doing the coverhem on certain flimsly, yet firmly knit fabrics. Just last week a friend asked me to do a coverhem on a top made out of this knit and I absolutely couldn't get the stitch to work. I changed needles, etc., and it still wouldn't work. This is the first time I have had trouble and I've had this machine for 13 years! I figure if I could use a stretch needle, it would work better as far as piercing the fabric, but I don't figure it would actually form the stitch on the back since it doesn't have that thinner, longer scarf like the EL needles. I guess there is a first for everything!

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Sewing in Wild, Wonderful West Virginia
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hnbrace
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In reply to purplebouquet


Date: 11/19/11 4:33 PM

I have the Babylock evolve. Yes there are CF needles out there. I have some right next me. As for whether they make a difference? I am not sure. The Organ needles that came that came with the machine when I bought it back in 2007 has CF on the package. I also have Schmetz that has CF on the package as well. I have been to 3 different babylock dealers and they all say different things. I had one tell me to NEVER use Schmetz in my embroidery machines as they will break my automatic threader. However, if you read the manual that came with the machine, it says you can use Schmetz. I have a different dealer tell me to use titianum needles because they last longer and work great with the machine. However other dealers say never use them. I actually don't like them. I am still on the look out for a dealer I trust. So yes they do exist but just not sure what difference they make.

LynnRowe
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LynnRowe  Friend of PR
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In reply to purplebouquet


Date: 12/2/11 12:35 PM

BL Evolve is elx705 needles. CF is the finish (chromium); they will last longer and resist heat build-up more, but the needle system you need is ELX705, regular or CF.

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I heart Panzy, Pfaff Creative Performance, the sewing machine love of my life!
And Baby (Enlighten serger), Victor (BLCS), Rupert (Pfaff 2023-knits expert) Ash (B350SE-Artwork), Kee (B750QEE-Panzy's BFF), Georgie (B560-Kee's baby sister) and the Feather-Flock!

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Karen31
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Karen31  Friend of PR
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In reply to hnbrace


Date: 12/3/11 8:41 AM

Quote: hnbrace
I had one tell me to NEVER use Schmetz in my embroidery machines as they will break my automatic threader. However, if you read the manual that came with the machine, it says you can use Schmetz.

Betting that one doesn't carry Schmetz, right?
I have had no problem from one brand to another long as it's the right type. Well except yesterday when I tried to coverhem some athletic pants for someone, what an awful stitch (on back). Right needles but wasn't my machine, what a pain going over the thicker parts with the stripes. Going to retry tonight on my machine.
I think the Babylock machines say inside the door or thereabouts what needle type to use. But don't specify brand!
How would a "heat" issue be affected by the CF type if that is indeed chrome finish?

------
Karen

rag doll
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rag doll  Friend of PR
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Date: 12/3/11 8:45 AM

My dealer tells me that there is no difference between EL 705 and 705's!

------
Brother QC1000, Brother PQ1500, Bernina Virtuosa 160, Pfaff (old), Babylock BLCS, Bernette 1100D, Bernette 334DS

sew2006
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sew2006
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Date: 12/3/11 10:57 AM

The description on the Schmetz web site:"This is an ELX705 needle with a light ball point. The ELX705 needle system is specially designed for cover stitch machines. This needle has a long grove on both the front and back as well as a slightly larger scarf and a light ball point. The chrome finish (CF) reduces heat and wear and aids in slipping through the fabric"

I've come across a couple of knit fabrics that skipped stitches with the ELx705 needles and the skipping went away with the CF needles on the cover hem. Swimsuit, very stretchy, 100 % poly fabric especially on the hems at the side seams. This was the same machine, new needles and no other adjustments were made.

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Janome10001, Babylock ESG3, Brother ULT 2001, White 634D serger, Pfaff 1472, Singer featherweight, Singer 14T957Dc, Bernina FunLock 009DCC coverlock, Brother PQ1500S, Janome CP900.

sew2006
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sew2006
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In reply to hnbrace


Date: 12/3/11 11:35 AM

1. Yes, the automatic needle threader can break, but not because you use Schmets needles but too small of a needle size. Instruction books state the smallest needle size that can safely be used with a needle threader. This is even more important with the machines that have automatic threaders where at the push of a button the whole function is done by machine.

2. Titanium needles are a specialty embroidery needle for heavy fabric, very dense designs. I wouldn't embroider a tshirt with them any more than I would hem a tshirt with jeans needles. "Gold Embroidery Titanium Nitride coating, slightly rounded point and enlarged eye. Fabric Use: Coarse and densely woven materials. Slightly rounded point and enlarged eye are perfect for embroidery on most fabrics and with the most fragile specialty threads. Titanium coating resists adhesives, improves needle wear & penetration of coarse and densely woven fabrics."

I had a Babylock dealer tell me that I didn't have to plug my computerized embroidery machine into a serge protector bar because it had it built into the machine and my Brother machine of a similar model had to be. When I asked for the name of said part she hung up the phone.

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Janome10001, Babylock ESG3, Brother ULT 2001, White 634D serger, Pfaff 1472, Singer featherweight, Singer 14T957Dc, Bernina FunLock 009DCC coverlock, Brother PQ1500S, Janome CP900.

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