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Message Board > Bridal and Formalwear Sewing > Waist Stay Relation to Corset Lacing ( Moderated by MissCelie)

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Waist Stay Relation to Corset Lacing
DIY wedding dress with back lacing no modesty panel and hiding a waist stay.
arianateaveliv
arianateaveliv
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Date: 4/15/13 11:11 PM

I'm creating a DIY wedding dress. I'm not talking about a go to the store, purchase a pattern and make it yours wedding dress. I'm talking a design it from the ground up wedding dress. Yes, I am apparently feeling ambitious. Luckily I have time, a very clear picture of the gown and a few decades of experience backing me up. Here's where I've run into a snag and I'm hoping there are some other seamstresses out there who can give me some input. I will be putting a corselette in the gown bodice beneith the shell and lining in order to keep the bodice as smooth as possible. This is a "strapless" design without the corsetted look. There will be cap sleeves added for look but not for support. Where I'm stuck is on the waist and under-bust stays. The back will be laced and will (likely) not have a modesty panel as the laces will be thick and should not leave any gaps. My problem is ensuring the stays won't become noticable for any reason even with no gaps. I've been doing a great deal of research and have come to the conclusion that the basics of a waist/underbust stay are that they have to be 1/2-1" smaller than the body measurement at the point where they are inserted in the dress and need to be secured to the dress at several points. Almost every stay I've seen has had a seperate closer than the dress. I need to know if there is any functionality behind that. Do stays need to have seperate closures from the dress or will they still function so long as they are slightly smaller than the dress measurement?

What I'd like to do with this gown is to create the corselette and place a stay inside the corselette. There would be the shell, the lining, the corselette with the boning and the corselette liner. The stay would be just inside the corselette liner and run into the lacing seam. I know some will say this won't work because the stays will be the same width as the corselette thereby negating the whole purpose of the stay. Not if I measure corselette and make the stay 1" shorter than that measurement. This dress is going to be form fitting no matter what so when the lacings are pulled tight in theory the stays should be the size they would have had I made them the traditional way. I like this idea in theory because the stays don't cross the back opening and there will be no chance of them showing beneith the lacing. My back up plan is to place the stay closures at the sides of the gown and encase the ribbon in the same fabric as the gown to camoflauge it. I have considered that if I secure the stay at the front and at the back it could cause bunching in the bodice and to compensate for that I would not tack the stays at the sides thereby pulling the front and back of the bodice close to the body and leaving the sides free. This is all theory at the moment but this should keep the bodice from bunching or gathering between two secure points on the stay when the lacing is closed.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Opinions? Insight? Wisdom? Critism?

Please and thank you!!!
-- Edited on 4/15/13 11:17 PM --

ConnieBJ
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Date: 4/16/13 8:31 AM

I would be concerned that the lacing will be taking too much strain if the stays end at the lacing seam. I wonder if you make the stays flesh coloured, they might not show underneath the lacing. It's worth a try.

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goodworks1
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Date: 4/17/13 1:07 PM

If you attach the waist stay at the correct places (you'll have to experiment once the dress is nearly finished) they should not distort the bodice. I would predict that they should be attached wherever the boning meets the waist.

I like Connie's idea about the skin colored stay. If you are really planning to have no gaps anywhere in the back lacing area I think you'll need at least a waist stay if not multiple ones.

Answering your question: I think you will definitely need separate closure(s) for the stay(s); otherwise they don't function as stays and you'll end up with that corset look whether or not you want it. But I'm guessing you can determine whether or not you need 'em after you try on the dress.

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arianateaveliv
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In reply to goodworks1 <<


Date: 4/17/13 4:29 PM

Maybe a better question is why do waist stays need to have a seperate closure? I know what they do (hold the dress in place) just not exactly sure how they do it.

As far as I can tell they're basically a belt on the inside of the dress that's just a bit smaller so it squeezes just a bit tighter than the dress does which is why I thought this would work with the corselette cut slightly larger than the stays and the dress cut slightly larger than the corselette.

goodworks1
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Date: 4/17/13 9:36 PM

Quote: arianateaveliv
Maybe a better question is why do waist stays need to have a seperate closure? I know what they do (hold the dress in place) just not exactly sure how they do it.



As far as I can tell they're basically a belt on the inside of the dress that's just a bit smaller so it squeezes just a bit tighter than the dress does which is why I thought this would work with the corselette cut slightly larger than the stays and the dress cut slightly larger than the corselette.

Okay, now I understand more clearly what you are trying to do.

I think the short answer is that if each of those under layers does not go entirely around the body they lose their ability to hold the dress in position.

I believe that if you connect them only with the lacings, then the dress/corselette/stay combo will pull apart and gape at the waist because greater pressure will be at that point (due to the shorter/tighter stay.

Does this make sense the way I'm explaining it?

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solosmocker
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Date: 4/18/13 1:33 PM

The stay keeps the bodice from sliding down and having a wardrobe malfunction at a very inopportune time. To do that it needs a closure. I also agree that too much strain will be put on the lacing without stay closures, another potential wardrobe malfunction. I agree with all Goodworks has said.

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ConnieBJ
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Date: 4/18/13 8:49 PM

Listen to what Elaine (goodworks) says. As well reading this post from Ann of Gorgeous Things explains quite well the necessity of a waist stay done the proper way. The What and Why of Waist Stays

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Connie Bontje

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EleanorSews
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Date: 4/18/13 9:57 PM

Just to clarify, the stay does take some of the stress off the closure whether it be buttons or a zipper and that's one reason the stay attaches/closes to itself.

For example, the waist stay has no or negative ease and attached with a hook closure. When you button or zip the dress, there is less stress or tension placed on the zipper at the waist because (1) some of the weight of the skirt is carried by the stay and (2) the closure is eased by the stay.

So, I guess I agree, that skin toned stays would be the recommendation. It seems to me that using stays under the ties of the corselette would reinforce your corseeltte closing making for a more secure closing. May one at the top and one at the middle in addition to the waist stay.

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"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." Anais Nin

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HDWen
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Date: 4/19/13 0:12 AM

would love to see even a "drawing" of this idea --

Question - Why do you want the stays around the waist? Does this area of the bride need tucking in?

I make corsets and bodices - the bodices I find are best to begin at the rib cage and go up - you get the corset type look, but without the shoving down of hmmm flab around the waist line and if you put in sturdy boning (not rigalene) the way you are making layers should be enough to hold this in place without forcing "closures".

I see in my mind the smaller corset inside, with a little bigger outer shell, and hope I'm envisioning your theory behind this?

Personally I would put a modesty panel at the back ONLY because the ties will rub against bare skin otherwise and may not be as comfortable on the bride?

hmm There were a lot of folks who did Corsets in the Pattern Reviews and also bodices - Hope that helps and can't wait to see what your vision is like!

Debbie

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I have a great enthusium for sewing, but lack talent to be great.

2013

arianateaveliv
arianateaveliv
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In reply to goodworks1 <<


Date: 4/23/13 0:38 AM

Quote: goodworks1

I think the short answer is that if each of those under layers does not go entirely around the body they lose their ability to hold the dress in position.



I believe that if you connect them only with the lacings, then the dress/corselette/stay combo will pull apart and gape at the waist because greater pressure will be at that point (due to the shorter/tighter stay.

I can see what you're getting at. I was thinking that the lacing would complete each of the pieces equally thereby completing the circle for the stays and the corset but I see what you're getting at as well. Hmmm. That's a very interesting point. Now I'm perplexed.
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