SIGNUP - FREE Membership and 1 FREE Sewing Lesson
| FAQ | Login
 

Platinum Sponsor
PatternReview.com
PatternReview.com

Forum > Beginner's Forum > Does this fitting problem have a name? ( Moderated by EleanorSews)

Please LOGIN or Join PatternReview
Go to Page:
Does this fitting problem have a name?
Addressing question to Catina
ccris
ccris
Intermediate
Member since 10/27/05
Posts: 5029
Send Message

      



Date: 6/29/14 9:48 PM

I can't upload a photo.....sorry.

Male fitting problem
Shirt/pj's - no yoke or darts involved

Laying the paper pattern on subjects back right shoulder I see it doesn't hang straight down. It angles down toward the left. The further down, the more it angles.

Subjects back neck from center back neck to neck/shoulder is wider than pattern, maybe 3/8 to 1/2 inches wider per side. I believe the neck is wider due to more muscle at neck/shoulder area (seems to be higher than normal there). Subject is not a weight lifter. When measuring from center back waist to outside shoulder, length is too long by about 3/4 inch, maybe more. I cannot even drape a piece of fabric on him without needing to add a back shoulder dart. I don't want to use a shoulder dart.

The front of the pattern doesn't angle, or if it does, is ever so slight. In fact, when measured from center front waist to outside shoulder, it seems slightly short by about 1/4 inch.

Does the above have a name, like maybe a pitch problem or pattern balance problem? Any idea on how to adjust for this? I've tried a round shoulder adjustment.....doesn't work. I've made so many muslins. I finally gave up, but would like to try again. I do think he also has a forward head that will need to be adjusted for. Garments ride up center front (forms A-like wrinkle, but only when he takes a step forward) and shoulders slide back. Garments seem to hang straight in the front until he walks.

Edited here: I was told some time ago that he had a "pitch" problem, but it wasn't really explained in such a way that I could apply it to shirts or pj's. Any (many) adjustments I ever made ended up throwing off the side seams. Subject is shorter than average.....not quite 5'5."
-- Edited on Today at 11:04 PM --

mastdenman
star
mastdenman  Friend of PR
Intermediate
California USA
Member since 1/12/04
Posts: 6149
Send Message

      



Date: 6/29/14 10:00 PM

It sounds maybe like he has a rounded upper back. In women's wear this is referred to as a dowager's hump. Threads magazine has a small article on how to correct for this.

------
Marilyn

January 2009 to January 2010 81 yards out and 71yards in January 2010 to the present 106.7 yards out and 146.5 yards in. January 2011 to the present: 47 yards out and 69 yards in.

mastdenman
star
mastdenman  Friend of PR
Intermediate
California USA
Member since 1/12/04
Posts: 6149
Send Message

      



Date: 6/29/14 10:00 PM


Thread's dowager's hump

Deepika wrote: Link disabled because it resulted in a pop-up with malicious software.
-- Edited on Today at 12:33 PM --

------
Marilyn

January 2009 to January 2010 81 yards out and 71yards in January 2010 to the present 106.7 yards out and 146.5 yards in. January 2011 to the present: 47 yards out and 69 yards in.

ccris
ccris
Intermediate
Member since 10/27/05
Posts: 5029
Send Message

      



In reply to mastdenman <<


Date: 6/29/14 10:23 PM


Thanks for the link, but he doesn't have a dowagers hump, the center back doesn't ride up at hem (center front does, though) and I've never seen neck/shoulder darts in young (middle age) mens garments. At one time, I tried rotating the shoulder dart to the hem, but that caused cone-like thingies to form from his high shoulder blade area down to the hem. Not a good look. lol He doesn't appear to have protruding shoulder blades, either. The fix has eluded me for years.

Catina
star
Catina  Friend of PR
Expert/Couture
Utah USA
Member since 10/6/11
Posts: 790
online now
Send Message

      



In reply to ccris <<
thumbsup 2 members like this.


Date: 6/30/14 9:14 AM

Good morning! I'm out of coffee this morning, but I'll try to take a stab at this.

Ahhhh.... you know how much I love pictures for a visual.

+ Do you have a pattern/style number?

+ PJ's.... is it just a plain neckline or does it have a collar and lapel of any sort?

+ Is the neckline seam 5/8"? If so are you clipping and trimming it down when you fit?

----------
Is this what you are describing? That instead of cb hanging straight it swings out?

------
Your "Pattern Hack Fairy",
Catina Ferraine

www.FashionHackPatterns.com

tailored
tailored
Expert/Couture
Member since 3/28/09
Posts: 105
Send Message

      



Date: 6/30/14 9:20 AM

Too bad you cannot upload a photo or link to one. You seem to decribe a couple of different things that are going on.
Neck width- you can widen the back neck if it is too narrow. Often the neck width on a pattern is a proportional amount of the chest size-weird I know, but most drafts use that. It can be a proportion of the total neck size too, so it can be widened.
If there is a yoke in the pattern, and you find a shoulder dart is needed you can move the shoulder dart into the yoke seam. If there isn't a yoke, you can create a yoke.
If he has a prominent shoulder blade that may be what causes the front to ride up because there isn't enough length allowed over the blade..... Allow more length over the blade, and dart it out somewhere or transfer to the armhole which will increase the armhole size and require a sleeve change.
This would be a balance problem if the front rides up.
Hope this helps a bit.

------
http://atailormadeit.blogspot.ca/

Mel.J
starstar
Mel.J
Intermediate
Victoria Australia
Member since 7/30/02
Posts: 2766
Send Message

      
thumbsup 1 member likes this.



Date: 6/30/14 10:50 AM

I suspect you will have already tried this: but, is there a noticeable slope to his shoulders? Having higher than usual muscles at the base of the neck might require adjusting similar to sloping shoulders (as well as the neck size). If that's the case, lining the unaltered pattern up at shoulder point & centre back neck could cause that swing to the left you describe.

------
Mel (Melbourne, Australia)

ccris
ccris
Intermediate
Member since 10/27/05
Posts: 5029
Send Message

      



Date: 6/30/14 1:05 PM

MelJ...........There's a noticeable slope to subjects's shoulders in the "back only," but it's due to the high neck base at sides that makes it look like a sloping shoulder. Slope is normal to slightly square in front. I didn't line up shoulder point AND center back neck........I just laid the pattern's shoulder on subject's shoulder beginning at matching the shoulder/neck point. Pattern did not hang straight down as it's supposed to......it angled.


tailored..........I have pics from the past on my computer but don't know how to get them from there to PR. PR wants an http. I don't want to use or make a yoke right now (been there-done that, grrrr, and it created more problems). I know the neck can be widened, but "how?" I know of two ways......one is to add to center back from neck to hem (then figure out how to remove the excess fabric across back that this adjustment caused), and the other is to remove fabric from side neck (this shortens shoulder, so I would have to add back what I removed). Actually, in order to get the neck to fit, I need to add a total of 2 inches to center back from neck to hem (1 inch per side). Strangely, subject's neck at adams apple measures normal for size.....15-1/2. It's the larger/higher base of neck at sides which is seemingly the cause, I believe. I don't see prominent shoulder blades. Thank you for telling me you think it's a balance problem if the front rides up...........so how to correct it without running into another problem is what I need to know.......step by step. lol The side seams must be straight, too, and in the past I've ended up with the back and/or front side seams not being that way. From what I understand (not much lol), I think this is what's known as "pitch."


Catina.............I don't know how to upload pics from my computer to PR. PR requires an http. I don't want to have to go to photobucket or wherever and upload there first in order to get them on PR. It takes too much time for me to figure all this out at one time. If you know how to get a pic from a computer to PR, I'd appreciate those instructions. I understand loving pics. I'm visual, too. A pattern/style number isn't needed for my questions to be answered because it's a fit problem that shows up in "all" patterns and "all" ready to wear clothing. It's the subjects high base of neck at sides that's "part" of the problem. That issue creates what looks like a sloping shoulder in the back only. More length is needed from somewhere on the back up to that point, however, one cannot just slash and spread to get that needed length because it also raises the back neck and you're right back to where you were initially. grrrr lol I have a load of fitting books, including Fitting and Pattern Alteration. I tried the adjustment for high base at side neck and it didn't work because I suspect something else is also going on concurrently. What that something else is is the question.:rolleyes:

Your pic..........yes and no. When you lay a paper pattern on the shoulder of a person, and see that the center back seam is angled, the side seam will also be angled. Your pic shows a straight side seam with an angled center back seam. Also, when laying the pattern on subject's shoulder, the back neck will end up being up in subject's hair following the angle of everything else. Your pic shows what I'd call an adustment to the pattern, as the neck is in the correct place. I know it's difficult to visualize the written word, (especially mine).

Catina
star
Catina  Friend of PR
Expert/Couture
Utah USA
Member since 10/6/11
Posts: 790
online now
Send Message

      



In reply to ccris <<


Date: 6/30/14 1:36 PM

The reason I had asked for the pattern & style number was that I could pull that up as my visual and also consider the neckline type.

I know it does take a little extra time to post a picture- unfortunately I'm just fairly useless at feeling I'm giving accurate advice without it.

I'm probably not grasping exactly what you are describing other than the quickie flat sketch I did, but if that were the case... I would likely try rotating the pattern on the shoulder at the neck until it lines up the CB fold line, then visually see where I would need to fill in the neck, then swing the armhole back inward and drop it lower so the outer shoulder is in the correct position.

I have an easy set up for myself. I have picasa on my desktop computer and a certain folder that automatically syncs up to my Google photo album online. Then I just grab the url and pop it in. For photos from my phone, they automatically sync to my online folder.

------
Your "Pattern Hack Fairy",
Catina Ferraine

www.FashionHackPatterns.com

ccris
ccris
Intermediate
Member since 10/27/05
Posts: 5029
Send Message

      



In reply to Catina <<


Date: 6/30/14 2:16 PM

So, are you saying you don't know how to get a pic from a computer to PR without going through online albums? I'm using a desktop computer and have no idea what "sync" means, or even "how" to sync. I'm not computer savvy with the technical jargon.

If you draw by hand a separate back bodice in proportion to your male pic, then lay that sketch on your male pic, you'll see what I mean. Don't forget to add a bit of a hump on the neck/shoulder area of your pic (not drawing) to illustrate a higher than normal neck base at side. Both center back and side seam will angle, and the center back neckline will be waay up on the back neck (in the hair). Your male pic shows a definite angle there at the side base of neck. When a person has a high neck base at side you won't see a definite angle like that.

The pattern would have a basic male shirt neckline (round). One could add a collar or bind the neckline. For instance, take a a traditional male pj pattern with collar. The ones that come to mind are two that I have, Vogue 8964 (view d), long sleeve with collar, or Kwik Sew 2388, view A with collar. The problem is the same regardless of neck style, v-neck or otherwise.

Go to Page:
Please LOGIN or Join PatternReview

printable version Printable Version

* Advertising and soliciting is strictly prohibited on PatternReview.com. If you find a post which is not in agreement with our Terms and Conditions, please click on the Report Post button to report it. Beginner's Forum >> Does this fitting problem have a name?

 
adv. search»
pattern | machine | member
        
Online Class
10 Clever Techniques To Help You Sew Like a Pro
10 Clever Techniques To Help You Sew Like a Pro

Class Details

Online Class
Fun with Fitting - BODICE w Darts
Fun with Fitting - BODICE w Darts

Class Details

BurdaStyle Downloadable 12-2012-156

photo
by: Trinity.

Review
Style 3759

photo
by: punkmik

Review
Favorite Things The Wrap Dress Pattern

Favorite Things The Wrap Dress Pattern

More Info
Christine Jonson Double Collar Princess Jacket

Christine Jonson Double Collar Princess Jacket

More Info

Conditions of Use | Posting Guidelines | Privacy Policy | Shipping Rates | Returns & Refunds | Contact Us | About | New To PR | Advertising

Copyright © 2014 PatternReview.com® , OSATech, Inc. All rights reserved.