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Resizing and density adjustment
A question about very dense embroidery design
lecamarade
lecamarade
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Date: 7/30/14 12:05 PM

So I've bought a 8.39" x 6.76" design which originally had 49000 stitches. Converted it from .EXP to .PES, resized it down to 4in (my hoop size) and ended up with 'just' 29000 stitches.

Now I realize that it was a bit too much...

When I started embroidering it, the design turned out to be very very dense. What's more interesting, the density itself wasn't really an issue, because, well, it was looking good. The problem was that the design had several layers of stitches on top of the very dense background. When I heard the needle piercing through this tough layer of thread I started skipping threads, because I was afraid that the needle may break or bend.

I've figured a way to reduce the amount of stitches to 19000, but haven't tried it yet.

Has anyone had similar experience?
What's the acceptable amount of stitches for 4x4in hoop design?
Is it normal for designs to have several layers of stitches on top of each other?

quiltingwolf
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In reply to lecamarade <<
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Date: 7/30/14 12:19 PM

It's really not suggested you resize something that much. Usually 20% is ok or you are going to have problems like you are having. The only machine you can do that on is the new Pfaff Sensation Pro. Where is actually re-digitizes the designs as it resizes it .
Which is an extremely cool feature (but then at $10K is should be.) As far as the amount of stitches in a 4 x 4 hoop it depends on your machine. It would be better to split a bigger design into multiple hoopings then to try and resize it that much. There is software that helps you do this.
-- Edited on Today at 12:20 PM --

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PattiAnnJ
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In reply to lecamarade <<
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Date: 7/30/14 3:44 PM

This chart may be of help.

However, you are trying to reduce a design by 50% (8" vs 4") and may be why you have stitches ontop of stitches.

I just don't think this is going to workout.

Splitting may or may not provide a satisfactory result. But it may be the only option.






-- Edited on Today at 4:15 PM --

------
"Improvise, adapt and overcome." - Clint Eastwood/Heartbreak Ridge

lca
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In reply to PattiAnnJ <<


Date: 7/30/14 4:05 PM

FYI, the stitch count chart has recently been updated. Here is the new chart.new stitch count chart

-- Edited on Today at 4:06 PM --

lecamarade
lecamarade
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Date: 7/30/14 4:15 PM

Well, it says my Brother can do 32000 stitches.
I think I should just try a different software to better manage density reduction.

TeeGee

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In reply to quiltingwolf <<
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Date: 7/30/14 9:32 PM

Quote: quiltingwolf
It's really not suggested you resize something that much. Usually 20% is ok or you are going to have problems like you are having. The only machine you can do that on is the new Pfaff Sensation Pro. Where is actually re-digitizes the designs as it resizes it .
Which is an extremely cool feature (but then at $10K is should be.) As far as the amount of stitches in a 4 x 4 hoop it depends on your machine. It would be better to split a bigger design into multiple hoopings then to try and resize it that much. There is software that helps you do this.

With my 2007 "cheap" stand alone Pfaff embroidery machine's 3D software I can "resize" and "scale" designs too.

I use "resize" to change the size of the embroidery design and retain constant density.I use "scale" to change the size of the embroidery design and retain constant stitch count.The handles on the embroidery on the PC screen show when "resize" or "scale" is selected.The height and width boxes will show the new size of the embroidery when I release the mouse button.I use "refresh" to calculate all resize steps into one in order to improve stitch quality.

I have to fiddle to get a larger than 4 x 4 embroidery design into the software embroidery "square" on my PC screen to resize it.I was told to never resize a design up or down by more than 20 %.My Pfaff can only embroider 4 x 4 embroidery designs.I wish Pfaff would come out with the same embroidery machine with a 5 x 7 embroidery field.I love my Pfaff embroidery machine.I didn't have to buy any extra software "box" or Embird.The 3D software can do everything I want to do and was included in the "sale" price.
-- Edited on Today at 9:34 PM --
biochemistress

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Date: 7/31/14 9:03 AM

It's not in your best interest to resize a design that much. I find the biggest issue is the underlay doesn't change, so you end up with an incredibly dense underlay, then all the stitches on top. If you have the ability, you also need to start eliminating short stitches as it gets smaller. My software can eliminate all stitches in a design that are, say, less than 1.5mm.

If your design has shading (looks like it fades from one color to another), the software doesn't really know how to handle resizing these. It also doesn't handle designs with lots of running stitches that look like lots of lines drawn over each other to make an outline, etc.

So basically resizing works best with a design that's all satin and fill stitches, and don't adjust it down more that 20% or the underlay will become bulletproof.

sew2006
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Date: 7/31/14 10:16 AM

The stitch chart in the link shows the maximum stitch count a machine can read, it's not a guide to make designs on the upper end of the count. The under stitching layer is important because it attaches stabilizer to fabric giving the rest of the stitches support. When you resize a design by almost 50% the software makes the best guess how to lay stitches in a smaller area. For optimal resizing you would need access to the original working file prior to stitch generation. When a designer makes a design for a 5x7 hoop they add details, shading that enhance the look. When you take those same details and try to make it half the size you would need simplify the design by manually removing some of the color stops. The Pfaff 6D software for example does two things: it recalculates the overall stitch count and also has a separate density map where it shows clusters of small stitches that can be removed. The size of small stitches removed can be controlled as well. What the software dosn't account for is width of satin stitches in an outline they stay the same. If you make a design 50% smaller than the original it should have 40-50% less stitches.

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Janome10001, Babylock ESG3, Brother ULT 2001, White 634D serger, Pfaff 1472, Singer featherweight, Singer 14T957Dc, Bernina FunLock 009DCC coverlock, Brother PQ1500S, Janome CP900.

PattiAnnJ
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Date: 7/31/14 1:34 PM

It is much easier to just go with designs that fit within the hoop.

If you find more and more the need for a larger stitching area, then it is time for a machine that better fits that need.

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"Improvise, adapt and overcome." - Clint Eastwood/Heartbreak Ridge

TeeGee

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In reply to PattiAnnJ <<
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Date: 8/3/14 1:47 AM

Quote: PattiAnnJ
It is much easier to just go with designs that fit within the hoop.
If you find more and more the need for a larger stitching area, then it is time for a machine that better fits that need.

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