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Message Board > Sewing Machines > Why are prices of machines such a secret???? ( Moderated by Sharon1952, EleanorSews)

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Why are prices of machines such a secret????
BrodyCG
BrodyCG
Member since 3/30/08
Posts: 3
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Date: 4/12/08 8:12 AM

Hello to all....I found this site when looking for details on a new machine I want. I have narrowed my search to either a Janome 6600 or a Viking Sapphire because of the wide harp area. I can find the features, accessories, and reviews but can not find a MSRP anywhere. Not on any site, online store, or the web site of Janome or Viking. How are we to comparison shop if we can't find out the price? I have one Janome dealer in my small town and her price is $1995. I will have to drive 40 to 50 miles to get the price of the Viking and another price on the Janome. With gas prices like they are, by the time I drive all over the state to get prices, I won't be able to afford a new machine. I have sent an email to Janome requesting the MSRP and will wait with bated breath to see if they respond.
If anyone has any idea of how I can find out the prices of these machines I would appreciate it.
I know I am new to the site and a brief intro is: I am 59, retired, and wanting to satisfy my dream of learning to quilt. I have sewn for many many years and jus t want a dream machine to do it. Had no idea buying a new machine would be so difficult.
Thanks to all of you for any help or ideas you can provide.
Brody

rhoda bicycle

rhoda bicycle
Intermediate
SK CANADA
Member since 6/26/05
Posts: 1148
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Date: 4/12/08 8:26 AM

This is one of the more annoying aspects of the sewing machine industry. If cars can have a MSRP posted on the window, why not sewing machines? The online sites such as SewVac might give you a rough idea. You could also read reviews people have done on this site and see what they paid for their machines.

Irene Q
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Irene Q  Friend of PR
Intermediate
NH USA
Member since 3/19/04
Posts: 2544
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Date: 4/12/08 8:38 AM

Have you tried getting price quotes over the phone, or by email, from the other dealers? My husband does this when he buys cars. As long as you know what you want and don't need to "test drive", and are indeed ready to buy if they give you the best price, you shouldn't have to drive all the way over there just to get a quote.

What my husband does is send an email to all the dealers within, say, an hour's drive (or more, if you're willing to drive farther to save $100). Say exactly what you want (Janome 6600 or Viking Saphire) and the exact features. Make sure that they know you are READY TO BUY and will go with the lowest price, and don't want to waste your time driving around. Ask for their best price because you don't want to haggle once you get there.

You'll probably get a variety of answers. Some will still want you to come in, some will give you a real high price, and some will give you a great price, because they're smart enough to know that they can make a sale with only a few minutes of effort on their part. Once you get a good price, you can always call your local person and ask them if they want to meet or beat that price. Hey, the dealers all know what the MSRP is and how much profit they're making so they know what a good price is when they hear it. The best offer will be a low price (maybe not the lowest), and someone who treats you fairly.

Good luck!

Fabienne301
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Fabienne301
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Member since 2/17/07
Posts: 545
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Date: 4/12/08 10:00 AM

Here is the reason why: because they can. If the consumer allows themselves to be kept in the dark, then they are taken advantage of. In Capitalist societies, most consumers go through a lot of trouble to find out what the price is and if they are not told, then they form groups of interested citizens and exchange the information that way. The sellers have to capitulate to the new and logical flow of information on pricing. Then the system turns into a fully Capitalistic system and away from an oligopoly (a few producers dictating to the many).

What I like about Pattern Review is that it is one of the purest forms of catalysts for Capitalism I have seen. Without a clearinghouse of pricing information, buyers are stuck with whatever high prices are being held by the producers. If I hadn't gotten the information about what others paid for their embroidery machines, I would have paid about $2500+ for my machine and software. I ended up paying $1,166.

Recently, a man wrote about his experiences buying a sewing machine, and he posted it here on Pattern Review (his name was something like Sewing Guru). I was amazed by his amazement when he went to buy a sewing machine and was treated like a woman. He didn't put up with it and got a great deal. A big part of his success was due to the information he got on Pattern Review and his willingness to negotiate.

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Fictionfan
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Fictionfan  Friend of PR
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In reply to Irene Q


Date: 4/12/08 10:50 AM

Quote: Irene Q
What my husband does is send an email to all the dealers within, say, an hour's drive (or more, if you're willing to drive farther to save $100). Say exactly what you want (Janome 6600 or Viking Saphire) and the exact features. Make sure that they know you are READY TO BUY and will go with the lowest price, and don't want to waste your time driving around. Ask for their best price because you don't want to haggle once you get there.

The biggest problem with this strategy for shopping for SMs in comparison to cars is that there are a zillion car dealers and very few SM dealers for most of us. The nearest SM dealer for any particular brand may be in the next state, rather than the next town or county, and much further than an hour's drive. It is a lot harder to play the 'I'll-go-elsewhere-for-a-better-price' card when the dealers know we don't really have a lot of elsewhere to choose from. The internet helps open the market a bit, but for the newest machines, the online dealers often say that you have to call or go to their showroom (2000 miles away...) because they haved contracts with the manufacturers to follow, and those contracts usually include only selling the TOL or latest machines from their brick and mortar locations.

Also, if you have a problem with your SM, that dealer in the next state is not so easy to get to with your warranty problem or maintenance issues. Part of the service we should expect from a TOL SM dealer is lessons on using the machine, maintenance, and warranty coverage, and that is a lot harder to get if the dealer is many miles away.

But I agree that they should not make the prices a secret. We have few dealers to choose from, so why the secrecy??? It's not like we have 10 dealers for any particular machine that we can go to. Most of us are limited to one dealer per company, if we even have all the companies to choose from, because those dealer contracts with the manufacturers are often geographically distributed, so we only have the one dealer 'near' us.

------
Fictionfan



Member since 12/31/69
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Date: 4/12/08 11:38 AM

---...---
-- Edited on 4/27/08 6:03 PM --

Sewing Diva Susan
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Sewing Diva Susan
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USA
Member since 11/9/06
Posts: 410
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In reply to BrodyCG


Date: 4/12/08 12:03 PM

A couple of sewing machine companies use to post MRSP on their web sites, but the prices were so far out that it just gave the dealers more room to over charge at a so called "sale" price. I work for a dealer so I know how the game is played. The MRSP is 3 times the wholesale cost of a machine, there is one Pfaff serger that the wholesale is 400.00 and the MRSP is 1499. so than the dealer gives you a "sale" price of 999.00 they are still coming out ahead by 599.! We all know the high price of the Evolve serger, MRSP of 2899.00, well let me tell you when they run it on sale for 1999.00 they are still making darn good money on the thing. Than don't even go to the price for parts and accessories, they are crazy over priced if you ask me. The problem with machines is there are too many hands in the pot, most dealers pay their sales people a very basic pay, than they make a percentage off of the machine they sell, so the higher the profit margin the more the sales person makes. If you really want to get the best deal buy directly from the owner, you will save 100.-300. on the bottom line that way. But not all owners are out there willing to sell machines, they give their sales staff the advantage of selling the machines. Also remember some companies do not allow the dealers to give out prices over the phone. But Janome and Viking are not one of them. So my advise it call around to dealers and get prices, even outside your area, and than see if your dealer is willing to price match. I honestly do know the current price we have on the Sapphire, but I do know that we have the Janome 6600P on sale for 1299.00. Out of the two machines I personally prefer the Janome 6600P. The Sapphire has some issues, and it will need to be re-callabrated by the dealer tech. You might also check out the Babylock Qust, it is basicly the same as the Janome 6600P, only it has a free arm, something that you will be glad to have.
Happy sewing to you! Susan

------
John 3:16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." NIV



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Date: 4/12/08 12:08 PM

---...---
-- Edited on 4/27/08 6:04 PM --

Mufffet
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Mufffet  Friend of PR
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VT USA
Member since 8/14/05
Posts: 10484
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In reply to Fabienne301


Date: 4/12/08 12:14 PM

Quote:
I was amazed by his amazement when he went to buy a sewing machine and was treated like a woman. He didn't put up with it and got a great deal.


AMEN....treated like a woman. Absolutely. Women can change their attitude when shopping, and get a good deal. The only reason the industry survives in this pre-20th century marketing model is because they have that oily "what can I get the little woman" attitude. Even lots of women salespersons. Phooy. That's why I bought a few machines online.

Interestingly, my local dealer has just changed staff. I see a more pro-active customer service model already! I think local competition from a few more major names in sewing machines here, and the recent addition of a Juki dealer has upped the ante on selling sewing machines and service! With emphasis on service. Now we have dealers for Bernina, Juki, Viking & Janome (same dealer), and Pfaff. All within about a ten mile radius.
-- Edited on 4/12/08 12:15 PM --

------
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."
--Dalai Lama

I have sewing machines

Olivia Sews
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Olivia Sews  Friend of PR
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CA USA
Member since 1/29/05
Posts: 606
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Date: 4/12/08 12:15 PM

I really think the answer to all this is to allow the dealers to sell online. The dealers would get more sales overall. There are SO many of us who want a certain machine, but don't really want to go or are unable to go to a brick and mortar store. That way, we will know the prices (Gee, like everything else under the sun!) and have it delivered to our door. All the dealers should have websites and could do online classes and have recorded demo's of all the models. We could download the demo to a disk and refer to it when needed. But most of us can and do figure a machine out on our own.

This new way of selling would promote many more sales and reach a whole new big group of people. The dealers need to get out of the dark ages and quit sitting in an empty little store, hoping for one sucker to come in there to pay full MSRP to pay their rent for the month. I felt that way at a Pfaff dealer I went to a couple of years ago and I was so turned off by the atmosphere that I left and never returned.

It needs to turn to a WIN WIN situation. Right now it is a LOSE LOSE game that will hamper the sewing evolution.

PS - I still would like a Pfaff for the IDT!
-- Edited on 4/12/08 12:21 PM --

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