Date: 4/15/08 1:10 AM

I have taken classes from several teaching pros in my area (Tucson) and not one has ever heard of using the upper chest measurement or doing an FBA. They choose a pattern by the bust measurement and go from there. These ladies - one young and two middle-aged - sew beautifully and the clothes fit well on the students. Has anyone else run into this? One lady said I sure was making things difficult for myself with all that FBA stuff. I'm thinking that reading about fitting is one thing but doing it in real life is different.

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Reply to Donna Isler
Date: 4/15/08 2:47 AM

I don't even need an FBA and I still end up swimming in patterns selected by my bust measurement. I suppose if you had broad shoulders that selecting by bust measurement might work, but it sure doesn't work for me.

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Paula

"In Seattle you haven't had enough coffee until you can thread a sewing machine while it's running."
- Jeff Bezos, Amazon.com founder

Visit my blog at www.sewconfused.blogspot.com

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Date: 4/15/08 6:13 AM

I suppose it depends on the shape of the students. Are any on them very proportionally top heavy in relation to the rest of their size?

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Formerly sew*itch

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Date: 4/15/08 6:46 AM

It might depend on how your teachers were taught.

My oldest sister is extremely knowledgeable about textiles, sewing, and garment construction and has a degree in Fashion Merchandising. She took draping in college, but not flat pattern. She can get a pattern to fit like a dream on anybody via using a pattern, choosing it by the full bust measurement, and draping. She even did an internship at Vogue patterns at one point, and she never heard of an FBA before I mentioned it to her a couple of years ago. Nor did she hear of choosing a pattern via the high bust vs. the full bust in the case of large cup sizes.

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Big 4 Pattern size 12, RTW bottom: 6, RTW jacket 8, RTW top (no size fits me well!)
Measurements: 34 HB/36 FB (34C bra)/27.5/36 (and working hard to keep it that way.)
Machines: Sewing (Janome Memory Craft 3000), Serger (Pfaff Hobbylock 786), Embroidery (Janome 300E)

Pearls of Wisdom that I'm forever repeating to my kids:
- You wouldn't care what people think of you, when you realize how little they do.
- Look where you're going, not where you've been.

My blogging spot: www.phatchickdesigns.blogspot.com

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Date: 4/15/08 6:59 AM

I tried using the Minnott Method for alteration several years ago - this method has you go by your full bust size and then alter from there.

Essentially, I ended up doing at least 4 times as many alterations and altering a pattern took way too long. I was supposed to start with a size 16 because I have a 37" full bust. As you know you usually get a "domino" effect with a lot of alterations - one thing effects another etc.

Now, I start with a size 10, do a pivot and slide FBA, do a couple of minor tweaks to the back pattern piece and I'm done. I'm sure a very talented fitting professional can take any size pattern and make it fit anybody, but I'm not inclined to go in that direction personally.

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Date: 4/15/08 7:02 AM

I've heard that Connie Crawford says to choose a pattern by full bust, and fit shoulders as needed. She designs and markets her patterns through Butterick.

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Date: 4/15/08 8:02 AM

I never heard of using the high bust measurement until I joined PatternReview. It's not a rule, it's just a suggestion because (1) the Big 4 and Kwik Sew draft patterns with shoulders that are too wide for many people and (2) it's considered easier to start with the neck and shoulder area fitting correctly than to alter that area. It also works well with people who are overweight (and that's a large percentage of us!) because you tend not to gain as much weight around the neck and shoulders as you do elsewhere. The downside is that you almost guarantee that you'll have to alter at the bust, even if you are a B cup, because the patterns are drafted for a smaller measurement.

This is really a personal choice. Many people get a better fit this way, but there are plenty of people (especially young, normal weight persons) who do just fine using the full bust measurement. If you don't mind altering the neckline area, then go ahead and use the full bust measurement. There are some patterns that are designed with better fitting shoulders - Jalie, Burda and Sandra Betzina's Vogue patterns, for example - and again you may want to use your full bust measurement with these patterns.

As for FBA's, it makes sense to do one if you have a cup size larger than what the pattern is drafted for (or a SBA if you're smaller). This is really a separate issue, but as I said before, if you choose a pattern by the high bust you'll have to do some type of bust alteration. Most patterns are drafted for a B cup, but as you get into the larger sizes and the independent pattern companies, you'll find patterns drafted for C or D cups. (I have a hard time keeping track of who drafts for what cup size in what pattern size - we should have a pinned topic for that somewhere! ) I'm a little surprised your teachers didn't know about FBA's, but if you're an A or B or even a C cup you can get by without one.

What do I do? If I choose patterns by my high bust I need to go down 2 sizes and end up altering everywhere else. But I'm a D cup so using my full bust makes the shoulders too large. I compromise and go down one size above the underarm, do a FBA, and check the measurements and ease carefully everywhere else. The shoulders can be too wide this way, so I keep an eye on that when I'm fitting, or I live with it (hey, it's still bettern than RTW!).

Again, it's all about what works for you with each pattern company. You can use these guidelines to start with, but there's no substitute for just sewing something up and seeing how it fits.

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Date: 4/15/08 9:34 AM

I've found it easier to cut and overlap than to cut and spread! I have much better luck with maintaining grain lines, etc. My full bust, waist and hips puts me in a size 18. I have a narrow back and shoulders, and am very petite (5 foot) I've struggled with using a size 14 and doing an FBA, but it just never seems to work. I then have to slash and spread sleeves, skirts, and I'm never very happy with the results. With an 18, I removed about 1/2 in the back width, 5/8 inch in the upper chest width, and about 1 inch in the upper chest length. The neck, bust point, waist, sleeves, etc. all fit fine with that. I do scale down pockets and lapels, but that's because I'm so short and I have to be careful not to look like a kid wearing my mom's clothes!

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Deb: www.thinkingcouture.blogspot.com

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Date: 4/15/08 10:13 AM

Ryan's Mom, your sister is EXACTLY like the sewing teachers I am talking about ! These ladies teach sewing and fitting - they've been around a lot of students, with all kinds of shapes, and they still have not heard of an FBA !! That's what amazes me. They'll work with the pattern I bring, sigh loudly and gently shake their heads about it being too small (cause I chose it by high bust measurement or chest width) and then when we've made the muslin, it is of course too big over the shoulders. That does not cause them to bat an eye. While the muslin is on me, they fold out little darts along the armhole edge, and in the middle of the chest, etc., and when it looks good, they transfer those little fold-outs to the paper pattern. This seems to take no time at all.

As for size, I'm a D cup and a classic case for an FBA, according to all the books I have.

I agree totally that whatever works is what we should use. I personally hate altering patterns because I end up with what looks more like a free-form art project than a pattern and sometimes I just plain get tired of the thing before I've even cut fabric.

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Reply to Donna Isler
Date: 4/15/08 11:27 AM

Quote:

While the muslin is on me, they fold out little darts along the armhole edge, and in the middle of the chest, etc., and when it looks good, they transfer those little fold-outs to the paper pattern. This seems to take no time at all.

It's a LOT easier to do the folding, pinning, etc. on someone else, so of course it takes "no time." Are these women going to fit every pattern for you? If not, you either need an exact duplicate of your body so you can do the folding, pinning or you need to learn how to do you adjustments a different way (i.e., slash/spread or pivot/slide).

There are a number of correct ways to alter a pattern, and they all produce very similar results. So, while your teachers may not have heard of a FBA called an FBA, what they are doing *is* altering for your full bust ... and any other differences between your body and the pattern.

Also, the term "FBA" isn't limited to any one method. You can do an FBA using slash/spread, pivot & slide, or draping. It's just a nickname for an adjustment large-busted women need to make on their patterns. You'll find FBA's in sewing and fitting books dating back to the beginning of sewing and fitting books.

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Debbie Cook

"I base my fashion sense on what doesn't itch." — Gilda Radner

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