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Debbie's X-alteration for pants
Help me think this through
Sherril Miller
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Date: 11/1/08 8:05 PM

Since Debbie's MIA, I thought I'd ask you guys my question. I'm working on a trouser pant pattern, Simplicity 4068, which happens to be Debbie's TNT favorite pants pattern. I didn't even realize that when I started making them. On my muslin I'm getting weird pulls toward to crotch at the inseam and I've seen this before on pants I've made. The side seams are perfectly fine. So I'm wondering as I study Debbie's tutorial on how to do the x-alteration, which she now prefers to her earlier tutorial on Kenneth King's fish-eye alteration, if I can just take the wedge out of the inseam while leaving the side seam wedge undone. What do you think? What exactly does the side seam wedge do for the pants except to add more length where I don't need it?
-- Edited on 11/1/08 8:25 PM --

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AnneM
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Subject: Debbies X-alteration for pants Date: 11/1/08 9:15 PM

Well, Debbie's post says "I found the inseam wedge alteration in Fast Fit (Sandra Betzina) and coupled that with another wedge at high hip to add the extra length needed to go over that area. " So since you already have the pattern at a point where the side seam has the required length, I would think you could skip that dart.

Interesting fit adjustment. I'm not able to visualize why full inner thighs mimic knock-knees, but I know I have full inner thighs.

I have one addition word to say: muslin.



Anne

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Sewing Jane
Sewing Jane
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In reply to Sherril Miller


Date: 11/1/08 10:20 PM

Sherrill, I believe Debbie switched to the Minot method of altering her pants. It can be seen on her blog if you scroll down the right hand side to Labels and under there-- "alterations." Scroll down to the place on minot method. It works for me too.

Luckylibbet
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Luckylibbet
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In reply to Sherril Miller


Date: 11/1/08 10:49 PM

I have no answer, but definitely like Anne's!

I am fascinated by this problem, and really want to know if this works for you. Please keep us posted - your insights are always really valuable!

ETA an e on Anne - your name is my middle name, so I should remember it but somehow never do!
-- Edited on 11/1/08 10:50 PM --

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Suo ergo maledicto

Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary. - Steve Jobs

Sherril Miller
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Date: 11/2/08 3:13 AM

I did a wedge alteration only on the inseam and it did fix my problem somewhat. I think it needs more, however. There is also extra fullness. I did a 1" tuck down the center of the back and that took most of the fullness away, but I still probably need another 1/2" removed. Now, does anyone recommend making my wedge wider or do you think I should actually cut off the leg and move it over a bit?

Sorry about the bad picture. I took it myself using a hand held mirror standing in front of a full length mirror.



I also did the wedge alteration for the front, so it would match the back, of course. That weird dipping drape in the front leg pointing away from the crotch went away when I shortened the center front crotch length. If I do a larger wedge alteration in the back, does it look like the front also needs more inseam length?

I hope my rambling made sense.


-- Edited on 11/2/08 2:16 AM --

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Visit my blog at http://sewingsaga.blogspot.com

If it's worth sewing, it's worth sewing well;
and if it's worth sewing well, it's worth FITTING FIRST! - TSL

Sherril Miller
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In reply to AnneM


Date: 11/2/08 3:15 AM

Anne, thanks for pointing out that Debbie added at the high hip because she needed that extra alteration.

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If it's worth sewing, it's worth sewing well;
and if it's worth sewing well, it's worth FITTING FIRST! - TSL

Sewliz
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In reply to Sherril Miller


Date: 11/2/08 9:00 AM

Your pants muslin fits a billion times better than all of the pants I saw at the DMV last time I was there waiting for nearly an hour. (It's a pants rear view show, what's a patternista to do?) Your muslin really is pretty good.

It seems to me that we are often looking for the flawless drape of a good trouser style and get frustrated because we start out using a typical pant pattern draft. That pant draft is everywhere in patterns and RTW and I haven't figured out why it is so prevalent since it really doesn't look good on the average person. Unless they strike the Victorias Secret model pose, you know the one they use when they model the rear view of jeans and pants.

Opening a wedge in the side hip seam or closing a wedge in the inseam ends up putting the CB seam closer to on grain which is more of a trouser draft. It lengthens the side seam relative to the inseam as well. If you stand with your feet together the distance from your waist to the hem along the side seam will be greater than it will be if you stand with your feet wide apart. I prefer to stand with my feet closer together when I wear nice pants in public so having more length in the side seam and having less of an angle in the CB seam works for me for the dressy trouser style look.

Your pants muslin looks like it is pulled up a bit snug in the bum. Does lowering the whole pants a touch help the wrinkles any?

ETA Some of the best trouser drafts are hidden in those wardrobe or suit type pattern envelopes, especially the ones where the pants have no design details whatsoever and we hardly notice the pattern has pants at all. Most of us have at least one of those patterns in our stash and they are worth looking into. Often the legs are pegged but leg width change and some leg shaping is easier than trying to change the butt area.
-- Edited on 11/2/08 9:10 AM --

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Liz

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AnneM
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Subject: Debbies X-alteration for pants Date: 11/2/08 9:19 AM

It's excellent, so much better fit than most people have with their pants. I know it isn't perfect, but it is still very good.

Liz has a great point on the trouser draft vs the pants draft.

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Nancy K
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In reply to Sherril Miller


Date: 11/2/08 9:59 AM

I think that you need to iron these and take another picture.
The back needs more length at the side seams. You have a straight side, and high rounded hips which need more outseam length. Pull up the cb of your pants and see if you get it to hang better. I think that you need to scoop out the back crotch a bit.

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rhoda bicycle

rhoda bicycle
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Date: 11/2/08 1:08 PM

Okay, I'm a little unclear even after reading Debbie's tutorial. Is the red wedge where she's added fabric, or is it a fold where she's taken it away?

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