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Message Board > Fitting Woes > Pants back fitting ( Moderated by CarolynGM, Deepika)

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Pants back fitting
GlButterfly

GlButterfly
Intermediate
CA USA
Member since 8/28/08
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Date: 11/9/10 2:30 AM

I'd like to conduct an experiment and would like the help of some here who experience wrinkles under the derriere. Shouldn't be too hard to find those, right?

Slacks or trousers only, as I don't believe this would work with jeans. Try on a few pairs, maybe even including purchased ones, but put them on so the front is in the back and the back is in the front; fasten them. Pants which are a little snug are also acceptable for this.

Check in a mirror, but back only. (The front will look weird.) What has happened to the wrinkles? Are they still there, different, worse, better?

Please return and post your findings. Thanks a bunch.

------
I have not yet begun to procrastinate

Update: soon I will decide when I will begin procrastinating.

MNBarb
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MNBarb  Friend of PR
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MN USA
Member since 4/3/10
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Date: 11/9/10 8:37 AM

Sounds interesting. I'll be part of your experiment but am off to work. Later.

------
Barb
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Edison
"I not only use all the brains I have, but all I can borrow." Woodrow Wilson

JTink
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JTink
Intermediate
VA USA
Member since 4/20/08
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In reply to GlButterfly


Date: 11/9/10 1:31 PM

Holy Cow! They look better in the back!!!!

MNBarb
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MNBarb  Friend of PR
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Date: 11/9/10 6:58 PM

Glad nobody came to the door just now. There are no under butt wrinkles when the pants are worn backwards.

Please let us know what becomes of this Gloria.

------
Barb
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Edison
"I not only use all the brains I have, but all I can borrow." Woodrow Wilson

woggy
woggy  Friend of PR
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PA USA
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In reply to GlButterfly


Date: 11/10/10 8:45 AM

I have also done this a few times and do not have wrinkles but the inseam does not hit me correctly. It is too far back on my body. I thought if I corrected the inseam placement problem by adding width to the front extension and shorten the back extension, then I would probably end up with the same problems I had when the pants were worn correctly.

By the way, in my old edition of Nancy Zieman's and Ruth Oberland's, pivot and slide book, it states to turn the pattern pieces around on a figure that has a flat fanny and a belly. The directions say to adjust the back piece to fit the front but gives no directions on how to do it.

Woggy

Woggy

JTink
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JTink
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In reply to GlButterfly


Date: 11/10/10 9:43 AM

OK, I've got to know...does this mean I not only have a "low" butt, but I also have a "flat" butt?

MNBarb
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In reply to woggy


Date: 11/10/10 12:20 PM

Quote:
turn the pattern pieces around on a figure that has a flat fanny and a belly


I am now thankful that I didn't fill out the front of the turned-around pants. THAT would be fitting terror!

------
Barb
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Edison
"I not only use all the brains I have, but all I can borrow." Woodrow Wilson

GlButterfly

GlButterfly
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Member since 8/28/08
Posts: 2913
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Date: 11/10/10 1:15 PM

Many years ago when I said that I was having problems getting pants to fit correctly a woman suggested to do what her friend did: use two fronts. I laughed as that wouldn't work for me. I needed that extra room in the back as I had a slightly over average sized derriere.

I've come up with a pattern that is pretty much wrinkle free herebut I was trying on some older pants the other day, and as a joke, turned them around. I could not believe it! Where did the wrinkles go??? I tried on several more pairs, purchased as well as sewn and all were wrinkle free and some even looked decent in the front (the backs of the pants).

Does this work this way for others? Who to ask as I don't really know anyone who sews pants. Aha! The PR members. Is it a certain shape or does this work for everyone? I was hoping more, with various shapes, would answer, although they still can.

I have a belly and my derriere is smaller than it used to be (although not quite flat) and has fallen--and can't get up (sorry, but couldn't resist)

So what was all of this telling me? Should I take the crotch shape of the front and put it in the back pattern and just lengthen it? Should I change the angle of the cb seam? Make too many odd changes and you get some really wonky looking pants.

I didn't know Nancy Zieman had mentioned switching the pieces and making the adjustments. Sounds interesting but, which ones, and how?

Two fronts would probably be good for those who are pretty much flat in the front and back.

So where did the wrinkles go? Why did they go? I know something about the math (and science) of pants drafting, but certainly not enough to answer these questions. I did find it interesting that several others saw similar results.

I've been thinking about the whys for a few days now. What is different? Why aren't there wrinkles? What we need to find out why this is happening and how we can apply it to our patterns. I'm stumped but hope someone on PR knows enough to give some insight. Is there a way to apply this to purchased pants?

I'm going to repeat what I usually say: Fitting pants is easy. It took me only about 30 years, about 10 patterns morphed many times, and about 1,000 tryons.

I don't have the answers---wish I did. Maybe we can use this experiment to help us with better fitting pants.

Want to add: I don't know how this would affect closer fitting pants like Barb wants. Well, so do I, but can't do that anymore as too many protrusions. I have to make my fronts fuller than I like in the lower zipper area so my belly isn't obvious and the backs fuller in the thigh area so I can avoid the under-butt wrinkles. What to do? What to do?

If you come up with any answers, please let us know.
-- Edited on 11/10/10 1:26 PM --

------
I have not yet begun to procrastinate

Update: soon I will decide when I will begin procrastinating.

woggy
woggy  Friend of PR
Advanced Beginner
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In reply to GlButterfly


Date: 11/11/10 3:41 PM

Here is my take on why the front piece may not cause wrinkles in the back on someone who has a flatter fanny with a dropped fanny. I do not know if this would be true for a person with a flat fanny that is not dropped. Mine is flat and dropped.

The center front seam is straighter, not angled like the back. The back has a wedge to go over the fanny which causes the center back seam to have an angle. A flattier fanny does not need as much as an angle that the back piece has.

The front extension slopes down on the Big 4 patterns. Burda does not have this type of extension slope that the Big 4 have, at least the Burda patterns I own don't have this type of front extension. Perhaps it is the slope that is needed for a flatter fanny.

Last month, I finally found an Italian tailor to draft a pants pattern for me. I knew when I saw the pattern it would not fit. Way too wide in the hips but the back crotch curve was different than my patterns. I lined up the crotch of his pattern on an old Vogue pants pattern so the curves matched and the grainlines were parallel. Much to my surprise, the tailor's back extension from the curve sloped down 1/2 inches below the size 18 extension on the Vogue pattern. The end of the extension point on the tailor's pattern extends about 1/4 inch beyond the cutting line of the Vogue Pattern. I laid the tailor's front pattern over my Vogue and his extension was 1/4 inch higher than the size 18 Vogue. The end of his extension point did not extend beyond the Vogue's extension point.

The other difference was the back center seam. The center seam was 1/2 inch away from the waist mark of the cutting line of the Vogue. It was 1/2 inch outside of the cutting line, not into the pattern. I traced the tailor's center back and removed 1/2 inches from the side seam on the Vogue pattern.

I made a pair of pants from this pattern last weekend and the pants fit perfectly. This pattern is a slacks pattern. It has one dart in the front and two darts in the back with a center front zipper. The pants do not hug my front hips like modern patterns do and the waist is at my waist not below it. I can sit in these pants and not feel as if I am in a cast or fear that the zipper will split. The pants do not pull down in the front when I walk and I have no wrinkles under my fanny.

I have a curve in my lower spine so the left side has a bit more room than the right but I need that extra material for when I sit and spread.

I believed all these years that my front was causing the problem. I tried every alteration I read about on these boards and in books. Nothing worked.

I did not need to scoop out the crotch curve but what I needed to do was lower the extension on the back piece and raise the front extension. There is an inch difference between my front and back and could never properly alter for it. Once I saw how the back extension on the tailor's pattern was lowered and the front pattern piece raised, I saw how this pattern would work for the inch difference between my front and back.

Folks have written on this board about the back curve not hitting the poster's fanny correctly. I have a long backside and when I scooped the crotch curve, it lowered the curve too much for fanny. I think the sloped extension puts the curve exactly at the end of my fanny where I need it.

SewLiz once wrote that she had cracked the crotch curve code and inserted a picture into her post which showed the front extension being higher then sloping down to the back. I tried that and it didn't work for me. However, I also felt there was merit to her idea. What I did originally with her idea was to scoop the curve. What I needed to do was to lower the extension. I just didn't think to do that.

By the way, there is a very old Threads article, issue 18, page 34 on changing the shape of the crotch and the back extension is lowered like the tailor's extension. However, the author has you add to the center front seam in this alteration. I don't know if adding to the center front seam is necessary. I did not do that. Maybe for some of us, we have not understood the term scooping out the crotch. I have always thought it meant to scoop at the actual curve but now I wonder if that is what it really means. Maybe it means to lower the area closer to the inseams of the pants. When the pants are turned inside out there is a curve where the two inseams meet. Maybe lowering the extension causes the scoop that some of us need. The extension is what is under our bodies. So by lowering the extension we produced the scoop for our bodies. The back extension needs to reach the front extension so a scoop is formed when the back extendion is lowered.

Just some more thoughts on how to get a pair of pants to fit.

Woggy

GlButterfly

GlButterfly
Intermediate
CA USA
Member since 8/28/08
Posts: 2913
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In reply to woggy


Date: 11/11/10 7:46 PM

Am thrilled to hear that you got a pair of pants to fit properly! I know you have been at this for a long time.

I understand what you are saying about the CF seam and how it's straighter than the CB seam. However, neither Barb nor I have flat behinds. (Can't speak for JTink).

There is no way it would work to wear pants backwards. I was just wondering why the fit is so much better under the derriere and if others experienced the same thing as I had, and if there was any way to incorporate this into our pants patterns. There just *has* to be some useful information there.

Make a copy of the pattern that was made for you and lock it in a safe deposit box! It is equivalent to gold.

------
I have not yet begun to procrastinate

Update: soon I will decide when I will begin procrastinating.

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