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Juki Exceed models made by Brother?
Question about Juki manufacturing
dhclark76
dhclark76
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Date: 2/18/12 0:57 AM

Short Version:
My local Janome & Brother sales/tech rep insisted that the Juki's are a re-badged Brother (a la Innov-is 450/650) and that "from the pictures he saw, the Juki is clearly manufactured by Brother). While I see some obvious similarities I am somewhat skeptical of this claim, but I don't know... Do any of you? (If you want to know the reason I'm asking, ya gotta read the last paragraph of the long version.)

Long Version:
Hello folks... I'm new around here and like so many do, I recently found this place because I was looking for insights regarding a sewing machine purchase. In the process of my research I came across an interesting question I hoped maybe someone around here might be able to answer.

Through my research I've been leaning pretty heavily towards getting a Juki F400 or F600. However, having no dealers even remotely close I haven't been able to "kick the tires" in person. Also, I'm not dead set and I've got no allegiances and am always willing to learn test other things out, so...today I visited a (semi) local dealer who sells Janome and Brother, I wanted to see what they had to offer. The salesman/repair expert was pretty hot on the Janome (understandable) and not so fond of his Brother stock except for a few key models. Anyhow, I asked him about the Juki's and he clearly knew next to nothing about them, but quickly even looked them up on his iPad. In the midst of the conversation I even suggested he should consider looking at carrying them since no one else in the area does. He was adamant that he wouldn't even consider it. And upon looking at the pictures, he proclaimed them a re-badged Brother. And told me, since he's not as big on the Brother, why would he even bother.

Anyhow... as noted in the short version, I'm skeptical of this. However, I do see the similarities in the machines and also see that their larger "professional" single stitch quilting models also look similar. Another piece of evidence he pointed to was the needle threader that was on the Juki which appears very similar to the one on the Brother which he indicated is a design patented by Brother. He also noted that the Brother's hold on the patent is why the Janome don't have similar threaders. The guy has been in the industry a long time and given my own level of knowledge (a whole lot less) I would be silly to simply dismiss his critique out of hand. So is Juki outsourcing their home sewing line?

One reason I'm curious is because if they are, I might re-consider getting the Juki and pick up a Brother that he had there in stock. He offered me a really good deal of $500 for the Innovis 650Q he had in stock. And it would come with the warranty and I would have the comfort of having a technician relatively close by. It's a hard offer to ignore, but I want to know if this guy was just giving me a sales job. He didn't seem to have much affection for the Brother NX650Q and tried hard to get me to look more seriously at the Janomes, which I may still do. But first I want to try and figure out just how much this guy is talking outside his actual knowledge in order to try and sway me. The conversation was somewhat intense for a while, but in the end he seemed like an alright guy. I'd like to keep my business local, but only if I'm getting a good deal and an honest dealer.

karen149
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karen149  Friend of PR
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Date: 2/18/12 2:07 AM

1.His first loyalty is to Janome
2.He was trying to sell you a Brother to make a sell. Don't get me wrong, the higher end Brothers are very nice for the money. I have one. He would prefer that you buy a Janome, though.

Juki's are not made by Brother. Juki has made many excellent machines for other companies in the past, including Singer, which included the Quantum CXL in the early 90's(a dramatic entry by Singer at the time) and a few years ago the Quantum XL-5000/6000 combo machines. Juki stands on it's own now with competitive offerings at good prices.

Welcome to PR!
-- Edited on 2/18/12 2:12 AM --

hese61

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Date: 2/18/12 2:14 AM

I think your dealer is lying. As far as I know all Juki household sewing machines and sergers are made in China Shanghai plant.

dhclark76
dhclark76
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MT USA
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Date: 2/18/12 2:18 AM

That's kind of what I figured, but when it comes to manufacturing (in general) you never know these days who is cross-breeding with who. Anyone remember they Mazda/Ford partnerships in the auto industry. The sewing industry has had its fair share of cross-pollination and manufacturing arrangements. While I have no specific loyalties I have considerable respect for Juki's well earned reputation. But, even the I take nothing for granted anymore just because of a "reputation". Even the best companies, with the best reputations put out lemons, on occasion.

That said... From what I can tell, $500 for the Brother NZ 650 seems like a pretty sweet deal. Plus I could take the $200-300 difference that id save over the Juki and put it towards an overlock machine, which is my next main desire. Still mulling over and waiting for someone to really convince me one way or the other.

... And thanks for the welcome!
-- Edited on 2/18/12 2:20 AM --

tgm and Kittys
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In reply to dhclark76


Date: 2/18/12 4:09 AM

Welcome !

What accessories is he throwing in with this deal ? Extra feet ? extension table? Wheeling sm cart ??? Sometimes dealers add many extras that may really make the deal worth considering. Just wondering. .... Our Brother adds nothing extra to any of the sm. He also carries Janomes but does not seem partial one or the other. ( I myself note that Janomes seem to run quieter which I personally prefer. )

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bellsew
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Date: 2/18/12 4:49 AM

What are you going to be sewing? If you are considering heavier fabrics with thick seams, I'd be seriously considering a Juki. A couple weeks ago there was an excellent thread here with people listing machines that sewed well over thick seams. I'm still not computer savvy enough to link, but "thick seams" was in the title I believe. Just $.02...

sewfrequent

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In reply to dhclark76


Date: 2/18/12 5:56 AM

There are 4 reviews on PR for NX650 and most recent was in 2010. Prices were 500 and 575 and both were purchased through amazon. In 2008 and prior, prices were closer to 800. My guess is that this model has already been discontinued, hence the lower dealer price. There is now an NX800 which, oddly enough, has fewer stitches and weighs only 11 lbs. I don't know which current model they have that would compare more closely to the 650q. I see several online dealers carry the 650q and their return policy is probably better than your local dealer's. Point being, you could probably get that same price online with the option of being able to return it if you decide you want the Juki. I once had a trusted sewing machine tech tell me that Brother made Juki's 98Q. I still don't know if true or not. I would be likely to believe the reverse was true but what do i know. They may share some of the same parts, same chassis, etc but I don't think the 600 is "made by" Brother. At same time, it would not surprise me, either.

biochemistress

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Date: 2/18/12 6:41 AM

I too have encountered dealers saying some interesting things. My local Janome dealer is also a repair shop for all makes of machines and they tell me flat out they sell Janomes because they never come back in for problems. Then they told me that the Brothers offer a lot for a low price, but you have to set aside the saved money for repairs. They are actually the second dealer to tell me this. Since I don't have a Brother dealer anywhere near me, I can't really comment except that I've loved all my Janomes and don't think you could go wrong with one.

beauturbo
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In reply to dhclark76


Date: 2/18/12 4:04 PM

"but in the end he seemed like an alright guy"

He probably is a "all right kind of guy" maybe for lots of stuff,(so use him and interact with him, for all the stuff he is good at or helpful with just instead maybe), but he was either "pulling your chain and jerking you around" on just that one, which makes him kind of a jerk at least right then at that moment, for just on that one thing, or one comment or maybe he just did not know any better. Or just having a bad day or something. That does not totally undo all the helpful stuff he might know, and could maybe be helpful with to you though at all, just one momentary strike against him for that one little episode!

dhclark76
dhclark76
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Date: 2/18/12 5:35 PM

As far as this particular salesman/technician, I would definitely continue to consult the guy for general information and service. And I didn't mean to imply that he was intentionally lying to me, because given the context of the conversation, I don't believe he was. I think that this was more likely a case of making general assumptions based on past knowledge/experience that likely don't apply to the specific models we were discussing. And he was just more confident that his assumptions than may have been actually warranted in this case. On the other hand... while I believe Juki does manufacture their own machines, I've not yet seen any conclusive evidence that he's absolutely wrong yet. I'm not convinced 100%, either way.

I'm gonna wait at least one more week before I make a decision on which machine I'll go with. In the meantime I'm gonna keep searching for info on the Brother NZ-650Q and Juki's manufacturing. But I think I'm still leaning towards the Juki. I'm also waiting for my sister who does costume design to go check one out for me, in person, since she's near a few dealers. If she gives a thumbs up, then there may be a new machine in the house, soon!

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