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Pattern markings
where to measure to/from
avatrx

avatrx  Friend of PR
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Date: 11/10/12 9:37 AM

On most patterns they list the back waist length and then put on the tissue where to lengthen / shorten. So based on my measurement for back waist length (18") and the most recent attempt at making a jacket - the pattern showed the BWL to be 17, so I added 1".

It also showed shoulder to bust point to be approx 3/4" shorter than me.,, so again, I cut and lengthened.

after sewing the jacket together, it seems that the bust is too low on me. There is a bust dart that points just under my bust and another long vertical dart that ends about where the bust dart does.

Here is my question: I have a Silhouette pattern that I may try next but she does not list anywhere on the tissue or the envelope or the guide sheet what the BWL is. I measured the tissue on the center back seam to the small waist mark on the tissue which seems to be only about 16". That just seems really short to me since I know she is 5'8" and I thought she based her patterns on herself. I emailed but got no response.

Am I measuring wrong? I don't know where the bust point is on most patterns. Is it marked somehow?

I am assuming that when you measure a pattern tissue, you would start at the seam line and measure from there. Most patterns are 5/8" - Silhouette patterns are 3/8".

I also need to adjust for length overall, so if I add 1" to the back waist length, and also add for shoulder to bust point, would I then subtract that amount from the bottom length in order for the pattern to remain proportional? OR should I just make the other adjustments and take a deeper hem?

When measuring pattern tissue for shoulder to bust point, where on the tissue do you measure from? kind of in the middle of the shoulder seam on an angle down towards the waist?

I have so many questions.......You are all so helpful.

thanks

I foumd the book and measured as best I could. somewhere around 16 - 17" which puts me at a size 22. problem is the shoulders just seem too wide on most patterns by about 1" on each side.
-- Edited on 11/10/12 10:24 AM --

AdaH
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Date: 11/10/12 10:17 AM

Make a muslin. You will know for sure what needs to be altered. I know it feels like an extra step, but in the end it is worth it.
On Silhouette patterns the bust point isn't so critical as there is a 3" circle around the bust point that Peggy designs for.
Have you watched any of her fitting webcasts? If not I would advise you to watch them as she gives tons of advice on fitting. Best of all they are free.
-- Edited on 11/10/12 10:18 AM --

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Ada

avatrx

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In reply to AdaH <<


Date: 11/10/12 10:29 AM

[/QUOTE] On Silhouette patterns the bust point isn't so critical as there is a 3" circle around the bust point that Peggy designs for. Have you watched any of her fitting webcasts? If not I would advise you to watch them as she gives tons of advice on fitting[QUOTE]

I've actually watched most of them. I still can't figure out how to determine the back waist length. On one of her jackets, she mentions the position of the waist is critical to the style. The small waist mark is on the tissue, but I don't know how to measure the tissue to determine WHAT the length is. Most patterns list that. Hers don't.

stirwatersblue
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Date: 11/10/12 10:47 AM

No experience w/Silhouette (the odd sizing instructions intimidate me), but I'd probably just measure it like you would measure your own body--seamline of the neck to the marking for the waist.

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AdaH
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In reply to avatrx <<


Date: 11/10/12 11:28 AM

That is because she is a big fan of making a muslin.

If you have never sewn with her patterns before remember you are selecting size by the finished garment measurement. This confuses a lot of people. It did me the first time I tried one of her patterns.

I took a 4 day fitting workshop from her a few years ago and I am trying to remember if back length was an issue for anyone. Other than sway back adjustments no one had to lengthen the back and there were a couple of really tall people in our class. Most of us had to shorten the back length. I had to shorten length between the bust and waist all the way around but then I am short waisted so that wasn't a surprise.
Sorry I can't help with more informaiton.

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Ada

avatrx

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Date: 11/10/12 1:14 PM

I have both the 1750 (Robin's jacket) which says to pay attention to the location of the waist and also 1900, which is a fairly standard tailored type blazer. they are both pictured here:http://www.silhouettepatterns.com/html/patterns/p_1000s.htm

I'd like to try to 1900 but am getting so frustrated with fitting issues on the last patterns I've tried that I'm about to give up.

I have the Burda pattern done for the most part. I was hoping it could be a wearable muslin but the chest area just does NOT fit right. I really don't know how to fix it. I'm sure there is a way, but I don't know what it is. It looks like the vertical dart needs to be higher, the shoulders narrower and perhaps the bust dart also needs to be moved, but if it were not so wide at the top that dart might be OK.

I have no one around to ask except those of you on patternreview.

I'll probably finish it and maybe wear a hoodie under it or something very casual. I could probably get away with doing that.

I'd love to take a fitting class but could never afford the Sagers classes. not to mention, there is nothing even close anywhere near me that would offer anything like that. I"ve been trying to find a seamstress that would work with me for a few hours to refine a single jacket pattern. If I had one that fit me to work with, I could probably use that pattern for other styles. So far I have not found anyone.

I keep looking for classes at the local JoAnns, but those are mostly PJ pants and pillowcases. Nothing more involved than that. I did get the name of a lady who does teach those classes, but she is never at the store, so I can't ask if she would work with me until I can either call or see her in person.

Maybe it's just not in the cards..............

Miss Fairchild
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Date: 11/10/12 3:11 PM

I'm assuming the front has a LS line? If so, lay the front next to the back at the side seams. That should be where you draw the LS line for the back.

Peggy's patterns don't have BW lengths, and I'm not sure why. I can only guess it's because people have different BW lengths in different parts of their backs. For instance, I have a BW of 17". But if I left it at just that, which is listed on the back of some patterns, the garment wouldn't fit. Why? Because I have a high round back of about 1/2" (meaning I have to lengthen it this amount) and a sway back that is about 1/2" to make it shorter, so 1" balances out between these two areas.

As to figuring out the bust point on patterns, the notch in the armscye points to the BP.

Now as to adding and subtracting, you can do just that: Add above above the waist and remove it from the hem. But I'm a little fuzzy as to why you need to do a shoulder to bust point measurement, thinking it's the same as your front waist measurement; it's not. And when measuring your shoulder to bust point, it should be started on the outside neck, where the shoulder meets the neckline, over the bust and straight down. Don't let it curve over and under your bust, but let the tape fall straight down and you use the measurement closest to your waist. The bust point should fall within a 3" circle somewhere in the front; this is Peggy's standard.

Keep in mind that the pattern you're currently working with might be different than Peggy's, although they both look the same. There are certain nuances built into the drafting process that we don't see.

Finally, if you're 5'8", try one of Peggy's patterns. If you're taller, add the difference in inches at the LS lines on the pattern; don't worry about the BW lengths not being listed. The muslin is the most important tool you're working with and you can quickly evaluate your fitting issues when you try it on. Peggy does a lot of draping, and tries really hard to re-teach us to do the same. She's not into math, figures, or measurements, other than the finished ones on her patterns and sometimes gets frustrated (for good reason) when we overthink.

Also, Peggy has a great DVD called Achieving Great Fit through Muslins, where all of this comes into play. She might be running a sale, and if so, I strongly encourage you to purchase it. It really opened my dinosaur eyes!

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AdaH
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In reply to avatrx <<


Date: 11/10/12 3:17 PM

Don't give up.
Just take the issues one at a time.
First I think you are using the wrong size pattern.
In another post you said your upper chest is 39". You also posted that you are using a size 22 pattern.
I am very close to you in bust circumference and I use a size 18 in the big 4 commercial patterns.

This is what I do. I cut the neck, shoulders and chest in size 18. When I come to the underarm I keep cutting till I reach size 22. From the underarm to the waist I cut on the size 22 line. From the waist I have to curve in and cut between size 18 and 20. (I am an apple)
Then I do a FBA for a C cup.

I am three different sizes. Size 18 in the shoulders/chest. Size 22 with an FBA in the bust. A size between 18 and 20 in the hips.

The only patterns that I have found that fit me right out of the envelope are Petite Plus patterns.

If your full bust is 44" (?) then in Silhouette patterns you would need a 6W. The next size down (5W) has a finished circumference of 45" and that would give you 1" of ease, which isn't enough. Size 6W will give you to much ease but that is easy to adjust by taking the side seams in.

Look on the back of your Silhouette pattern. I think the back length is listed there.

Hope this helps?

I second Miss Fairchild's suggestion of getting the fitting DVD from Peggy. A lot of the information in this DVD is the same things she teaches in her fitting workshops.
-- Edited on 11/10/12 3:22 PM --

Fly to Cedar Rapids IA. I will give your some fitting lessons.
-- Edited on 11/10/12 3:26 PM --

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Ada

avatrx

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In reply to AdaH <<


Date: 11/10/12 4:39 PM

Quote:
Fly to Cedar Rapids IA. I will give your some fitting lessons.


Don't tempt me :-) I do own a small plane.......... I just haven't used it in over a year because of the cost of AVGas.

My first attempt at making a jacket was Simplicity 2446. I love the lines on it but using my measurements and cutting it out, it was just too small. I found out after the fact that although it was one of those 'fitting' patterns, the front size C had been printed in a size A, and the A - a 'C' cup. They have since revised the pattern. I have REV2.

I just tried on my (what everyone here refers to as a 'wadder'). The simplicity jacket I tried and failed at. it has no sleeves because I gave up before that due to the sizing issue. I like the pattern. I made it in a size 20, but had to let out the side seams from the suggested 1" - to approx 3/8 (each side). The shoulders are still a little wider than need be but it seemed that the biggest problem was that the armhole is too big and extended too far forward. Perhaps that was because of the mis-sized pattern. I'm thinking about trying that pattern again. I found an old sheet that I don't mind cutting up.

So- here is my question. Should I do the shoulders in the size 18, then widen everything else down from there to the size 22 using a C. cup? Maintaining the 1" seam allowances?

The bust on that pattern in size 18 is 40" (approx my upper bust). The size 22 is 44" (my full bust)". The pattern has sizing for A, B, and C cups so I'm guessing that takes into account the size difference and that I should just use the 22? The waist on the size 22 is a little bigger than me (I'm 34 and it is 37). The hips are also a bit bigger (46 as opposed to me at 43/44).

Here is a link to the envelope back if it works: http://images.patternreview.com/sewing/patterns/simplicity/2446/2446.pdf

I just find this so discouraging. Had it not been for the help from all of you, I would have given up a long time ago and just stuck to PJ pants and loose fitting tops.........

The back length on the Silhouette patterns only shows height and overall length. She does something with numbers that uses these numbers, but I'm not 100% clear on that.

I guess I'm not sure how to achieve the narrower shoulders and still get the sleeves to fit. The shoulders need to be (on the size 20) about 1/2 - 1" narrower if I measured right....

I'm 5' 10+" my back waist length is 18. I always have to add to the BWL and to the sleeves.

I do have the revised version of the Simplicity pattern but I'd still check it before I cut anything. :-)

I looked up several reviews for this pattern here on PR and a couple of them said they made the 'D' version. This pattern doesn't have a D version. at least not on the pattern I have and it's Rev2

-- Edited on 11/10/12 6:40 PM --
SandiMacD
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Date: 11/11/12 10:12 PM

Hi Avatrx,
I have taken a number of Sarah V's classes online at PR. They are running a special this month- I am signing up for her slower class. I have taken her FBA class and her Set In Sleeve class and she guided me step by step to altering and drafting a pattern to fit.

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