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Pattern mod & fitting adjustments
I could use some additional feedback please
hazelnut
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hazelnut  Friend of PR
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Date: 12/18/12 4:45 PM

I'm continuing to adjust and fit KS 3570. From everything I've been reading, I *think* I need to make a broad shoulder adjustment, along with a sloping shoulder adjustment and also drop the armhole to the back piece. Then I'll also need to drop the armhole in the front piece and add the same amount to the sleeve. In addition to adding that inch to the sleeve I *think* I still may also need to make a large triceps adjustment. The fabric is a 4-way stretch brushed poly knit, that currently is (according to DS) “too tight in the arms and armpits and across the top”.

One question is "Can I cut across both pieces at approx. the same spot at upper back/mid armhole?" Or should I cut and add the broad shoulder higher in the back (as per FFRP) and do the front chest at mid-armhole? It's hard to find much info on men's adjustments. Do the armscye additions need to be in the same spot front and back for the sleeve to fit properly? Or can the back be higher and the front lower as long as it's equal?

The pull lines (on this 4-way stretch knit) are diagonal on both front and back coming out from the underarms. I've also noticed a single horizontal pull below the back neckline. I was also going to increase the size from XL to XXL along it's angular side seams (but only for the upper portion of the side seams) to give the chest and upper back more room in that area. I'm afraid to extend the shoulder out to XXL though, since it is now cut at XL and has a dropped sleeve that hangs over his shoulder by and inch or two. The sleeves were spiraling in the last muslin so I rotated them back an inch, which really didn't seem to help much – but that could be because of all the tight pulling still coming from under the arm upwards.

The back and front of the top (IMHO) doesn't look all that tight to me, esp from the middle down, with the exception of the underarms. I guess he likes a lot of ease. The front also rides up a bit, like if he needed an FBA -LOL. I think adding the length in the upper shoulder/chest will fix that.

So, does anyone see any potential *bad ideas* or problems with any or all of these adjustments together? I've tried adding 1/2” to both shoulder seams and afterwards tapering for slope, but it didn't seem to help much, probably because it made the sloping part worse where it hung off and I had even more pulling at the armpits. However, I didn't realize at the time that I also needed to lower the armhole - I thought that adding the extra 1" to the shoulder seam would have dropped it enough, but didn't take into consideration the slope adjustment.

Suggestions, ideas? Thanks
I know, I should probably stick to baking – the cheesecakes have been coming out just fine.

-- Edited on 12/18/12 4:54 PM --
edit: to change slop to slope, LOL, although slop might be a more accurate description of what's been going on! LOL
-- Edited on 12/18/12 5:08 PM --

blue mooney
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blue mooney
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In reply to hazelnut <<


Date: 12/19/12 8:39 AM

I wrote a whole bunch of stuff, but it will only work on a shirt without a yoke. Altering a shirt with a yoke involves more steps. So save yourself some reading if your shirt has a yoke! If there is no yoke, here are the steps I would take.

For the armhole, cut out the entire armhole portion of the pattern. Cut it in a rectangle with one side parallel to the grainline. That will make it easy to measure how much you're altering. (So that you can make the exact same adjustment to both back and front.)

Now you have the armscye as a separate piece. Slide it down, keeping the cut edge that is parallel to the grain together, the amount you need to adjust for sloping shoulders. Notice that you are lowering the armhole at the same time.

Then you can broaden the shoulder one of two ways.
1. If the back is a little narrow as well, slide the armscye horizontally out until the shoulder is as broad as you want it to be and then draw the side seam from the underarm parallel to the original side seam. Connect the shoulder point to the neckline with a straight line.
2. If the back width is good, pivot the armscye piece, keeping the lower corner (the one that connects with the side seam) in place as your pivot point. Pivot out the amount needed for the broad shoulders. Then draw your new shoulder seam from the armscye shoulder to the neckline with a straight line.


-- Edited on 12/19/12 8:40 AM --

------
--Robyn
sewing blog: http://bluemooney.wordpress.com/
illustration blog: http://storybooky.wordpress.com/

schmammy
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schmammy  Friend of PR
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Date: 12/19/12 10:04 AM

Dang! I can't offer any advice, mainly because I grapple with so many of the issues you describe. When I reach the point you're at, I drop everything and do some embroidery or home dec sewing (my version of your cheesecakes?)!
Good luck!

------
Indecision may or may not be my problem. -Jimmy Buffet

http://chihuahuaonmylap.blogspot.com/

hazelnut
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hazelnut  Friend of PR
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In reply to blue mooney <<


Date: 12/19/12 12:54 PM

No yoke, thank goodness!

Quote:
Slide it down, keeping the cut edge that is parallel to the grain together, the amount you need to adjust for sloping shoulders. Notice that you are lowering the armhole at the same time.
This sounds similar to lowering a bust dart? As I'm reading my post again, I think I may need a rounded back adjustment even more than (or in addition to) the broad back. When I looked in my books they show "broad back" for that horizontal wrinkle, but that could be the least of my problems here. They also show forward neck, rolled shoulders, etc. He's "meaty" through the upper arms and chest and upper back. He wears RTW XXL or XL in knit tops (tees, polo's, pullovers).
Quote:
1. If the back is a little narrow as well, slide the armscye horizontally out until the shoulder is as broad as you want it to be and then draw the side seam from the underarm parallel to the original side seam
This would be the broad back or rounded back adjustment then, right?

On this top both the front and back side seams are cut on an angle, the back piece wraps around from the armpit to the front giving the look of a *V*. It probably makes no difference if I pivot the armscye piece as you say, but visually I'm struggling with this as I read and type. I will need to actually rework the pattern to understand I think. I will give this a try when I get home this evening. Thank you for your explanation!

I'm working on 3 different KS patterns for him for next Monday and they all have their fitting and ease differences, though the other 2 are a relaxed fit with normal (straight) side seams. Each one of these patterns I have made for him are either too large or to small somewhere very conspicuous. He doesn't live close-by either, so there are long spans of time in-between fittings, which doesn't help. I try to jot things down so I don't forget. I was going to make him a sweatshirt last night but had no ribbing or stretchable fabric to either match or contrast nicely, so that idea went out the window too. I tried using self-fabric for the ribbing portions once before and it turned out horrible because these cotton fleeces have no real stretch. They are more like a woven. The necklines, wrists and waistbands very ill-fitting.
Thanks again!
hazelnut
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In reply to schmammy <<


Date: 12/19/12 1:02 PM

LOL, thanks! I wish I could have him here for a whole week - I could probably work out some of the issues MUCH quicker. When he visits I have to put all my sewing stuff away because we need the kitchen table to eat! LOL and also his little pup will get into everything and I wouldn't want her to get hurt. I once had to pull a piece of interfacing out from the back of her mouth and partially down her throat!!!! Never want to go through that moment again! Lucky I saw her grab it from the waste basket and run and I was able to get it in time! I also do not plan to cook AND sew on Christmas! lol
-- Edited on 12/19/12 1:04 PM --

blue mooney
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blue mooney
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In reply to hazelnut <<


Date: 12/20/12 8:58 AM

eek! sounds like the pattern you're working with is not a standard shirt pattern. If that's the case, I'm reluctant to give any advice because I could be dead wrong!! Dumb me, I should have looked at the pattern picture first.

The sloping shoulder adjustment I was describing is like cutting a bust dart box and lowering it.

But now it sounds like you have another pattern or two that fits well through the back and shoulders. Can you use it to modify the pattern that doesn't fit right? Morph that portion of the pattern onto the one with the crazy seams?


-- Edited on 12/20/12 8:59 AM --

------
--Robyn
sewing blog: http://bluemooney.wordpress.com/
illustration blog: http://storybooky.wordpress.com/

hazelnut
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In reply to blue mooney <<


Date: 12/20/12 12:14 PM

Quote:
But now it sounds like you have another pattern or two that fits well through the back and shoulders. Can you use it to modify the pattern that doesn't fit right? Morph that portion of the pattern onto the one with the crazy seams?


I don't know....KS 3028, view A, the loose Sweatshirt top, was loose enough on him, but with much more of a dropped shoulder than this one. KS 3299, the plain tee, had the same problems in the upper chest, back and arms/armscyes even though it's armhole was a little deeper and differently shaped. I actually laid all 3 patterns front and back tracings over each other to check out the differences and I was surprised how each one was shaped quite different, including the necklines and shoulder slope and esp. the armsyces. It was at this point where I just stared at them over and over, confused and unsure of how to proceed and started posting.

I still don't know enough about fit and alterations to know what "cause and effects" will happen with the changes I make, esp. since the entire fit and the "suggested fabrics" for the 3 patterns are all different. I read somewhere that the more a sleeve is dropped, the looser the fit has to be for the arms to move freely - which seems logical and fine for a bulkier sweatshirt. KS 3570 is described as "close-fitting" and made for a fabric with lycra, so I was afraid that if I dropped the shoulder too much (by going up to the XXL size) it might also interfere with how armhole will stretch and fit with arm movement and potential binding. I have even wondered if perhaps the extended shoulder right now is too extended and possibly part of the problem. His large upper arms add to the problem.

I am planning to cut out all 3 patterns again (esp. since he gained more weight and upper body bulk since last spring-which is the last time he tried on 2 of the muslins) and have them ready for Christmas eve. I decided to cut 3028 last night, since it's the only one that *should* be loose enough, though I skipped using the good sweatshirt fleece and used some cheap stuff, so who knows. I still need to get the neck, wrist and waistbands to fit correctly in this pattern. I think I've given up the idea of making the good stuff for Christmas gifts (once again!) and just hope to have another 3 muslins ready. I feel like a such a disappointing Mom since I've been fiddling with these patterns on and off for 2 yrs. now.

I did make some adjustment to 3570 last night, but no morphing. I'll attempt some morphing within the patterns after I sew up 3028 today and see what happens, but I got to tell you I don't understand all those bottom armscye differences... and they scare me. I should probably do one pattern at a time until that fit is perfected before I try others, but I guess I keep hoping to get lucky. LOL I have this sinking feeling I'll be posting again next year about these same issues unless I finally resolve them, they've become my continuing WIP's. Thanks again for your help!
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