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Blouse fitting - shoulder puzzle
Me again - needing help
sued5320
sued5320
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Date: 8/12/13 11:11 PM

Pattern - Silhouette's #600 Classic Blouse. D cup.

Muslins in 2 sizes - each with only one sleeve.

Muslin photos

The first 4 photos are the larger size. I had added 1" length between bust and armhole. I think this was too much and have pinned out 1/2". The shoulder seams looked (in the mirror anyway) too long. I'm not so sure looking at the pictures though. The shirt pulls up quite a bit when I lift my arm. Quite a bit is pinned out of the side at the bust. This one is cut too small at the hips which is an easier fix for me than the shoulders. There are supposed to be front darts below the bust - I let them back out. Based on most of this above, I thought the smaller size would be better.

Next 4 photos - smaller size. Added 7/8" length between bust and armhole based on the adjusted measurement from the larger size. This looks better on the top of my shoulder but is not wide enough at the back of the armhole. It pulls more when I lift my arm. I cut this one wider at the hips.

Last 4 photos - a RTW shirt which is stretch woven fabric. I think all of my shirts don't fit right on the top of the shoulder which I never noticed before! The shoulder seam is typically past my shoulder. I think the wrinkle at the back right below the collar is because it needs a square shoulder adjustment. I've also noticed a lot of my shirts have that same wrinkle.

Is it possible that I have short?/narrow? shoulder length but larger shoulder width? Can I be one size in the back and a smaller size in the front?

I don't need this to fit perfect. I would like it to fit well. Last week someone at work told me "Perfect is the enemy of good enough." Wise words as I can get too caught up in tweaking projects and I'm more critical than anyone else would be.

Sue

Miss Fairchild
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In reply to sued5320 <<
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Date: 8/13/13 2:17 AM

Wow! Sounds like you know what you're doing, and you're trying really hard to get this to fit. The pattern is a little loosely fitting, so take this into consideration. I've made several blouses out of this, that's how I know. I'm only estimating your problems and I'm sure others will chime in with their points too. Hopefully I won't confuse you.

First, do you see the diagonal folds on your back near your shoulder seam? That tells me you have forward rolling shoulders; that they curve toward the front more, making your body sort of barrel shaped. I have this problem all the time and mostly on one side. I'd pull up the outside part of the back armhole to see if this goes away. If it does, then I would do a Forward Shoulder Adjustment. Sometimes I use shoulder pads and this corrects the problem. I'd also rotate your sleeve toward the front the same amount of the FSA, so that the sleeve cap is setting more on the knob of your shoulder.

Next, it appears that there is some serious puddling above your hipline (fourth picture, first set). This tells me you either have a length issue or a high round back. What would happen if you were to slash just above your shoulder blades and not interfering with the armhole, and leave an opening of about 1/2"? This would allow some room over your shoulder blades. Then remove this same amount just before your waist. The RTW picture, last one, shows a high round back.

The next items I see glaring are the bust darts. The horizontal dart is too long; it should just point to your bust point, not meet it. The same is true of the vertical darts. (second and third photos, first set and fourth photo second set)

The back in the first photo second set looks close to what you need, apart from the diagonal folds at the shoulder, and the curved folds in the back. And it might be due to your cutting it wider at the hips. It's possible that your back is larger than the front; I have the same problem.

I'm not certain if this is all, but it's what I can come up with for now. I'm sure others will have some great ideas.

------
"Play the cards you are dealt, but choose who is sitting at the table"..AARP magazine

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Lena Merrin
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Lena Merrin
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Date: 8/13/13 4:55 AM

If the sleeve is binding when you lift your arm like in the first picture, it means you need more back ease. I see that the armhole is very cut out for a shirt (row 1, last pic), so you won't get a comfortable sleeve with armhole looking like this. How about a pattern with a back pleat?

You have a rounded back, and on pic 3, row 2 I see that the shoulder seams are quite shifted to the back. I would definitely add more length across shoulder blades. It will move the shoulder seam to the front, stop choking you at CF and get rid of those diagonal wrinkles at the back.

I also think you need an FBA (row 2, pic 2) because I see "rays" coming out of your boobs :)

And re square shoulders - you have to button up the shirt to decide if you really need it or not (row 3 , pic 1). Sometimes fabric just folds diagonally like this when the top buttons are undone.

All the best with your fitting!

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TX
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Date: 8/13/13 9:34 AM

Have you tried emailing Peggy Sagers at Silhouette Patterns? I have emailed to her a few times with questions and always get a reply. Your pictures would give her great insight to your struggles and I'm sure she could be a tremendous help to you with suggestions. If its more than she can explain in an email, she may ask for your phone number and call you! Good Luck.

Sewnla
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Date: 8/13/13 10:43 AM

In addition to emailing Peggy like TX suggests you could also join the newly formed SihouetteFriends Yahoo Group. I found out about them on the chat before Peggy's webcast last night. It's free and this is the description "This is a friendship group for the lovers of Silhouette Patterns. Join us to post your experiences with Silhouette Patterns. Show us your muslin for fitting help or better yet post pictures of your finished garments. Peggy is not always available -- lets help each other." Your pictures are great I'm sure there are many in the group who can help.

sued5320
sued5320
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Nebraska USA
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In reply to Miss Fairchild <<


Date: 8/13/13 2:45 PM

Quote:
If it does, then I would do a Forward Shoulder Adjustment. I'd also rotate your sleeve toward the front the same amount of the FSA, so that the sleeve cap is setting more on the knob of your shoulder.


Just checking - this would make the back piece at the shoulder taller and the front shorter. Rotate sleeve meaning cut at the shoulder seam down the sleeve length at the front and back. Spread the back apart and overlap the front by the amount of the back spread.

Quote:
What would happen if you were to slash just above your shoulder blades and not interfering with the armhole, and leave an opening of about 1/2"?


Is that a horizontal slash and spread it vertically? I should just cut this open on the muslin already made - right? I don't have to try to do it on tissue first and sew up another muslin yet.
-- Edited on 8/13/13 2:51 PM --
utahliz
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Date: 8/13/13 4:03 PM

I see a definite rounded upper back, but I'm not sure about the forward shoulder. If it were me, I'd make the rounded upper back adjustment and look at it again to see whether you still need a forward shoulder adjustment.

Also, the armhole binding can also be caused by the armhole being too long (doesn't look like that's the case here) or by the armhole being too far away from the center of your body, whether that is due to a narrow shoulder or the bodice being too wide at the underarm.

I agree that the smaller size seems to be a better starting point for you. I notice that in the side view, it pulls away from the front of your body a bit. Once you adjust for the rounded back and fix the bust darts per Miss Fairchild's suggestion, look at the blouse again. You may need a smidge of a FBA.

Liz

Miss Fairchild
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In reply to sued5320 <<


Date: 8/13/13 5:15 PM

Quote:
Just checking - this would make the back piece at the shoulder taller and the front shorter. Rotate sleeve meaning cut at the shoulder seam down the sleeve length at the front and back. Spread the back apart and overlap the front by the amount of the back spread.

Yes. A forward shoulder adjustment affects just the outside part of the shoulder, from about midpoint out to the armscye/armhole. So the adjustment would look like a wedge in the front when you cut off the excess. Then tape this portion to the back piece and you don't have to add anything extra.
"Rotate sleeve" means rotate sleeve head so that the shoulder dot appears more forward than it should be. The rotation should be the amount of the adjustment.

Quote:
Is that a horizontal slash and spread it vertically? I should just cut this open on the muslin already made - right?
Yes. Don't have the horizontal slash go into the armhole; just cut it open across the back and leave a little bit attached at the back armhole. Then pull down the amount you need. This is a "length" issue, as in Peggy's LCD and should be done first.

The shoulders are a depth issue, as the shoulder seam is a dart and should be done last.

------
"Play the cards you are dealt, but choose who is sitting at the table"..AARP magazine

SEE MY ETSY SHOP HERE: http://www.etsy.com/shop/AuntMaymesAttic
My blog: http://auntmaymesattic.wordpress.com/

sued5320
sued5320
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Nebraska USA
Member since 6/6/13
Posts: 28
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Date: 8/13/13 10:30 PM

Slashed across the back on the smaller muslin which seemed to help. Not sure how to measure the gap - maybe lay the tape measure over my shoulder and take a picture.

It appears from the side view that I still need to do the Forward Shoulder Adjustment. The tightness in the sleeve feels better but still not acceptable. If I pull up on the top of the shoulder seam, it feels better and it's easier to move. Armhole too large vertically? I'll try the FSA first and see if that helps. A smaller armhole requires yet another muslin.

Slashed the back

I know the bust darts are too long on this version. I think I need to solve the issues above the bust first and work my way down.

MissFairchild - thank you for your insight. This fitting stuff defies normal logic. Who knew that tightness across the shoulder blades is a length issue? And a shoulder seam is a dart? They didn't teach me this xx years ago in home-ec class.
-- Edited on 8/13/13 10:48 PM --

sued5320
sued5320
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Nebraska USA
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Posts: 28
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Date: 8/14/13 11:22 PM

Something stuck in my head from one of Peggy Sagers' videos. Correcting one problem should not create another - if it does, then the correction wasn't right.

It seems that may have been what I've done. Maybe.

I did a forward shoulder adjustment as suggested. I put the sleeve back in but I didn't move the center dot on the cap. I matched the original to the new seamline and the seams don't match up under the arm. It still didn't feel right and I restitched the seam for square shoulders.

Here are the latest photos. It's difficult to see but I now have a gap in the back neckline starting about halfway between center back and the shoulder seam. The seam is also standing away from my neck at the shoulder seam. I didn't find that problem in FFRP book.(I only did the FSA and square adjustments on the side with the sleeve. Is this my problem?)

On a positive note, what originally looked like a problem with the bust dart is much better. I don't have the pulling above the bust towards the shoulder.

ShoulderAdj Back
ShoulderAdj Side
ShoulderAdj Front

I'm beginning to feel like Quasimodo!

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