1. As a beginner sewer, I have seen the phrases "crotch depth" and "crotch length." Are these terms interchangeable and how do you locate them on your body and the pattern pants piece?

These terms are not interchangeable and clearly mean two different things. Crotch depth is the distance from your waist to where the pant goes in between your legs. The crotch depth line is at the widest point of the leg because that is where the pant goes between your body. To measure the depth, measure straight from the waist to the crotch depth line. The crotch length is the distance from your waist, over your tummy, through the crotch, and over your rear to your waist at the center back. So you get this by measuring the pant actual seams at center back and center front of the pant. If we really understand clearly these two definitions, the rest is a piece of cake. If you ask questions, which indicate that you don’t understand, then in order to understand, you must clearly get the difference between these two. Good question and make sure all of you understand these two concepts.

2. I can usually get my pants to fit in back by "scooping out" the bottom of the back crotch curve. However, I haven't figured out how to deal with the front. Although the length seems right, the fullness doesn't hang from the right place. There seems to be excess vertical folds of fabric below the zipper toward the inner leg. Any suggestions?

The only reason you should scoop out the back of the pant is to increase crotch length. That is all it does. Crotch length needs to be lengthed only because the pant pulls down at the center back when you stand. I will be glad to listen to other reasons why you think you might lengthen the crotch depth, but once you do that and you do that without any reason, you throw off many other things. I will tell you that many, many , many of your pant fitting books are incorrect, so this should be an interesting discussion because so many of you have not a lot of good information. I certainly don’t mean that to be negative, as home sewers, we don’t have a lot of good pattern information.

3. I cannot seem to get a waistband to fit. It is usually ends up way too big and seems to grow from the time I measure and make the waistband to when I put it in. I usually end up putting in elastic to pull it in. How do I get a proper fitting waistband?

I think the waistband issue is a sewing issue. I had been asked this question before and it wasn’t until I started doing my week long workshops that I figured out what was going wrong. The waist band and the waist are a 1 to 1 ratio. So if the pant fits without a waistband, it should fit when you put on a waistband. When you sew on the waistband , you should pull the band taut as you sew around the band. This makes a clear difference. Also, I sew the waistband on with one stitch line called edgestitching, which is not a home sewing item and most of you are not familiar with how that is done.

4.I have a problem with getting a v-shaped wrinkle in the front crotch area of my pants. I have tried making the full thigh alteration by adding length to the front thigh then tapering back in. Do you have any more suggestions? I've enjoyed your work ever since I first heard you speak at Fabric Boutique in Las Vegas many years ago. Thanks!

The v shape means you have too long crotch length in the front. Take it out by pinching the center front seam and forming a horizontal dart right across the front of the pant going to the side seam where it should taper to nothing. That point at the side seam is called the pivot point and this alteration allows you to change only what you need, which is to shorten the front and do nothing to the side. You must do this to the pattern, it cannot be changed once the cloth is cut. And thanks for the email.

5.I have a slightly full derriere - size 12, but well rounded. It seems that the Front crotch of my pants is always too long, with the Back crotch being fine after adding about 1/2" to the back crotch point. Even after reading several sources, I can't quite figure out how to correct this. Scooping down from the front sides at the top, graduating to the center, never seems to be enough. What am I missing?

Your missing how to correctly change the crotch length. You should never change the inseam point where all three of these measurements come together. The three measurements that come together are the crotch length, the crotch depth, and the leg circumference. The three numbers come together at the point of the crotch. Whenever I change anything on a pant, I should never change that point because if I do that, I cannot change one without messing up the other two. I know what you have been told, but it is wrong. Once a pattern is drafted, if you need to change crotch depth, you do that by adding to or taking away from the waist. If you need to change crotch length, you do that by slashing from the center front or center back of the pant, horizontally to the side seam. If you need to change leg circumference, then you add to the side seam. But once the pattern is made and if you go changing the point, you will never get it right, because the chances are very slim that all three need to be changed that same amount. Does that make sense?

6. I have a flat butt and big thighs. How do I remove the baggyness from the back side of my pants?

Baggyness in the butt is crotch length too long. Take a dart-like tuck from the center back of the pant at the hipline to the side seam and you will see that takes out the excess fabric from under the butt. It is there because the crotch length is too long, your butt is not big enough to fill it up, so what is excess has no choice, but to bag down under the butt. You have two choices, take out the excess, or get a bigger butt.

7.I am in Plano, TX and would love to attend a class on pants/jacket fitting. When will you have a class here in Dallas? Please!

Thanks, just keep checking our web page for my schedule. Time is my most precious commodity and the business is growing rapidly.

8.I have a 11 inch difference between waist and hips (31"/42"). Do I make the pattern according to hip, waist, or chose somewhere between the two.

I would always choose by the hip. That is the most important are to fit. Then to fit the waist, just increase the darts or add them if they are not there, or increase the size of the pleats and then use the side seams. The purpose of the darts and the side seams and the pleats are to take in the difference between the hip and the waist. If they have not taken in enough to fit your waist, take them in more, but use them all so the pant will look better, I have the same problem.

9.What style is most flattering for short, hippy person.

I will say it over and over and over. Darts are the best for any shape or size. Darts use less cloth and less cloth is always better.

10. After years of measuring ready-to-wear pants that fit my daughter well, I've learned that the best fit for her is an approximate 4-1/2" difference between the front crotch length and the back crotch length. She can find RTW pants that fit, but pants patterns always require a lot of alterations to arrive at this measurement. What do RTW manufacturers do or know that pattern manufacturers don't? Why is there such a difference between the design of RTW and the patterns that are on the market?

Wow, what a question! RTW has to sell the ready made garment, it had to be better. Pattern companies only have to put a pretty picture on the front. The difference in education is tremendous, I am so disgusted by the patterns that you use and the quality of them, I started a pattern company. I decided it wasn’t going to be hard to get better than what you have. As you start to know patterns better, you’ll get angry, but it doesn’t do any good. I can’t explain why the difference, but it is there and it is a big one. Now to answer the next part of the question, The front and the back make up the crotch length. It does not matter how the front and the back are actually divided, but in making pants for the mass, when the front is shorter, the pant looks better in the front. That does not make it any more right, it just leaves all the problems to manifest themselves in the back where you cannot as readily see them. But for fit purposes, it does not make a difference how you break up those numbers. It is no difference with circumference. If I take a skirt that fits and decide now that I want 10 panels going around, it does not change the fit as long as I divide those 10 panels evenly and still get the same circumference as the original skirt. Where the seams are does not even make a difference, just the total make a difference. That is absolutely true of crotch length, but it does make a more visually pleasing look to make the back longer and it also helps me to keep the front of the pant on grain. That will help depending on my fabrics to sometimes look better.

[5/12/02 21:07:43] Ann: Peggy, when we are begining to fit pants, what is the most important measurement/geometry/consideration we should be aware of?

[5/12/02 21:07:56] Karla: Peggy - Do you have any suggested ease guidelines for different pant styles?

[5/12/02 21:08:43] peggysagers: yes and no, let me explain

[5/12/02 21:09:31] peggysagers: Ease is based on your personality. In the bottom half of the body, ease is the ability you have to sit. You see many ladies with pants so tight they can't talk and then there are those with pants so loose, you could put two people in there.

[5/12/02 21:10:47] peggysagers: I fit many women and I always ask, How do you like your pants and get a feel for their personality as to how they like their pants. It varies widely. Are there hard and fast numbers, no, but you need to put the tape measure around your rear end and sit and use nothing smaller than that number.

[5/12/02 21:09:54] PatM: What do you think of the one seam pant?

[5/12/02 21:12:16] peggysagers: The one seam pant is quick to sew, there are more than one seam by the way, but do not represent the most flattering style by any means and they fit no better than any pant. If you have a pair of pants that fits well, you can make your own pattern of one seam styling.

[5/12/02 21:13:55] peggysagers: The fit on a pant is made up of the shaping above the crotch depth line. Duplicate that shaping and put that with any styling. The shaping of the hip, waist and crotch length needs or should stay consistant and the styling is just that, it is the styling. Styling does not effect fit.

[5/12/02 21:10:32] mudcat: I have a custom pants pattern made by a fashion design graduate. It fits me better than any commercial pattern I've ever made. How do I transfer this shape easily to other pants patterns (or can I)?

[5/12/02 21:16:19] peggysagers: There are three measurements that have to be right when measureing for pants. They are crotch depth, crotch length and leg circumference. That's it. Pants are drafted from the skirt patten and the shape of the waist, the circumference of the waist and hip are taken from the skirt. When you are starting from scratch, you need all of those numbers.

[5/12/02 21:07:46] Debbie: Peggy you use alot of iron on knit for underlining please compare this to silk organza. As I want to make linen pants and skirts

[5/12/02 21:18:22] peggysagers: Silk organza is just outdated and too costly. You are doing this in the privacy of your home and if you like silk organza, don't mind spending the time or the money, there is nothing wrong with it. I think it is too high maintanence and I think good fusible is terrific. I would never use silk organza in this day and age, but I know people who do and I can't argue, It is absolutely your garment and your decision.

[5/12/02 21:17:10] Debbie: Peggy is there any significant difference in the finished lok between lining pants or wearing a seperate pants liner with them

[5/12/02 21:19:55] peggysagers: There should be no difference in the look of lined pants or pants liner. If you can see a difference, something has not been done correctly. There are exceptions if you are working with shear fabrics of course, but generally, you should not be able to tell the difference.

[5/12/02 21:20:41] mudcat: I get wrinkles in the back under my seat. Most fitting books attribute this to having a flat bottom however mine is not flat. I have thin legs, particularly my back thighs. Pants will fit everywhere else fine and look good from the front and often the sides as well. Any alteration suggestions?

[5/12/02 21:19:55] Deepika: Peggy isnt there a risk of getting bubbles in the fusible?

[5/12/02 21:22:45] peggysagers: The only time fusible bubbles is your quality of fusible. and I have seen some very bad quality. You must preshrink your fusible and your fabric, and you should not have a problem. I have sold this stuff for over 10 years and have never had a problem, I have used it professionally when I had a dress line and never had a problem,,. it is my opinion, it is the quality of the fusible. When you buy it, make a note to yourself where you purchase it, then if you have problems, go back to the source and make them accountable.

[5/12/02 21:23:43] Deepika: thanks Peggy...

[5/12/02 21:20:30] autumn: If you use fusible for underlining pants, how "breathable" are the pants?

[5/12/02 21:24:17] peggysagers: fusilbe always makes the pant warmer, there is no two ways about it. It is your choice as a sewer, the positives from the fusible or the warmth? Which do you want more. That is the great thing about sewing, we can all make our own decisions and not have them made for us.

[5/12/02 21:20:11] Ann: Peggy, on Q2, the "flat bottom, full thigh Q, I need to do the same, I thought for a low bottom. Other than scoop out the back curve, any ideas? Thanks.

[5/12/02 21:24:37] peggysagers: Do not scoop out the rear

[5/12/02 21:25:00] peggysagers: Tell me why you are scooping out the rear. What was wrong that you were trying to fix?

[5/12/02 21:25:15] Ann: Allow seat

[5/12/02 21:25:54] peggysagers: Then lengthen the hipline

[5/12/02 21:26:16] peggysagers: lengthen the distance from the waist to the crotch

[5/12/02 21:26:26] Ann: Even though I'm very flat, and have the baggy thing going on in the back, I also have a "wedgie" on the center back seam'

[5/12/02 21:26:46] peggysagers: Keep going on that topic and let me know your thoughts

[5/12/02 21:27:04] peggysagers: The baggie is not because of your low seat

[5/12/02 21:27:12] Ann: I guess my curve and the pattern curves are just not in the same place :-)

[5/12/02 21:27:38] peggysagers: Your baggie is because your crotch length is too long, not crotch depth. Make sure you understand the difference

[5/12/02 21:28:14] peggysagers: That is right, but scooping out the curve does not make them in the right place, raise it up or down from the waist

[5/12/02 21:28:16] Ann: ok, I printed it out and will syudy, please help some other ladies, and thanks so much

[5/12/02 21:29:54] peggysagers: I think all the questions are going to be similar because most of you don't understand how those numbers work, that's why I say if you give me your thoughts, I can respond to them and to everyone at the same time

[5/12/02 21:28:06] Debbie: I realize that ease in pants is a personal thing but what is the minimun amount of ease in the hip and the thigh

[5/12/02 21:28:48] peggysagers: Are you dealing with a woven fabric or a knit for minimum ease?

[5/12/02 21:29:36] Debbie: I would appreciate knowing about ease for both

[5/12/02 21:31:18] peggysagers: in a woven, you should wrap the tape measure around you hip or widest part of the body below the waist and sit. That number is the minumum amount you need. For a knit, it will stretch when you sit and so you can have to ease and make them the same as your body. Does that make sense?

[5/12/02 21:32:10] peggysagers: I will tell you as a pattenmaker, all the patterns I ever did commercially I made with a very long crotch length. That way I fit everyone, even though I fit no one

[5/12/02 21:30:19] mudcat: Is the excess fabric also a problem of the crotch lenght being too long even when the seat isn't flat?

[5/12/02 21:32:33] peggysagers: If you have any excess fabric under your seat, it is always crotch length

[5/12/02 21:33:12] peggysagers: You correct crotch length by the horizontal dart that I talked about earlier.

[5/12/02 21:33:31] peggysagers: That is the only way to correct crotch length

[5/12/02 21:34:02] peggysagers: If too long in the front under the tummy or too long in the back under the rear

[5/12/02 21:34:13] peggysagers: no

[5/12/02 21:34:45] peggysagers: When you say crotch, you must specify depth or length, there are clearly two different things

[5/12/02 21:34:47] LindaE: if it is too short in the back do you add lenght at the waist

[5/12/02 21:35:08] peggysagers: excess fabric can't be too short. If it were too short, there would not be excess

[5/12/02 21:35:33] LindaE: thanks

[5/12/02 21:36:03] peggysagers: that is a common wrong!!! THE ANSWER IS NO. a similar statement to me would be like if the bust was too high should I add at the neckline?

[5/12/02 21:36:45] peggysagers: Where the problem is, is where the problem should be corrected, not somewhere else and that is a major problem.

[5/12/02 21:38:07] peggysagers: You must think of a pant as the top half of the body, let's say the neckline is the waist, the butt is the bust and under the butt is the waist. I would never change under the butt to fix the bust, but we do it all the time in pants

[5/12/02 21:38:57] peggysagers: talk to me

[5/12/02 21:39:06] peggysagers: tell me what your thinking

[5/12/02 21:42:32] mudcat: Is there any book that you can recommend? I like to see pictures

[5/12/02 21:43:34] nanflan: By after the fact I mean after they've already cut the pants out of fabric. At that point you're limited in what you can do.

[5/12/02 21:43:46] mudcat: ...pictures of the corrections I need to make that is...

[5/12/02 21:40:56] Ann: Peggy, maybe this question will help, it is my problem, but also I think others. I am short from waist crotch, (depth) but wide from front to back. Were do I add and subtract to solve this problem? Also, a darted pant pattern in the W range, pretty please with sugar on top.

[5/12/02 21:43:56] peggysagers: I will tell you that the short crotch depth and the long crotch length are common. And another pattern will not help you, you need the knowledge. Knowledge is way more important than a pattern.

[5/12/02 21:41:17] nanflan: Don't you think that some of that thinking is due to the fact that folks are trying to fix these problems "after the fact?" Do you recommend muslins?

[5/12/02 21:44:35] peggysagers: After you cut, the cloth you are very limited. Make muslins. I know I am a pattern maker because the pattern has all the control, the cloth simply follows

[5/12/02 21:44:12] ElonaMasson: Having sewn for years, and having tried for dog's ages to fit my own rear end, I despaired of ever getting a good fit. After all, I am a very good seamstress. But the truth is, I cannot reach around and fit my own behind. The ultimate solution for me was a private fitting session with one of the teachers as sewing workshop, using a Burda pattern. Given my experience, do you think it is possible for a woman working without a sewing buddy to get a good pants fit? spaired of ever getting a good fit.

[5/12/02 21:45:58] peggysagers: It doesn't matter if you have ten ladies, if they don't know pants, they won't get them to fit. If you have one who does understand fit, they will get it. Patterns are not sewing related. You could have sewn one million years and still not know fit. They are not related

[5/12/02 21:45:52] Rennie2: Can you tell when the crotch depth has been 'fixed' at the waist?

[5/12/02 21:47:00] peggysagers: Crotch depth can be fixed at the waist, When you cut out a pair of pants if you are not sure they will be long enough in the crotch, leave some extra and then move the waistband up or down to compensate when you discover what you like.

[5/12/02 21:48:21] peggysagers: Crotch length and depth, you must get those two terms down, what they mean, where they are and how to control them in the pattern.

[5/12/02 21:48:48] peggysagers: Starting over with a new pattern in not the answer

[5/12/02 21:48:54] peggysagers: and I sell patterns

[5/12/02 21:49:10] peggysagers: Do you understand the difference, if not ask me

[5/12/02 21:49:33] Debbie: For crotch depth do yor suggest sitting in a chair and measuring from your waist to the chair seat

[5/12/02 21:51:03] peggysagers: Yes, for crotfh depth, do the chair thing

[5/12/02 21:51:14] peggysagers: But do you know how to plug that into the pattern and how to change it if you measure wrong

[5/12/02 21:51:30] Ann: I thought I did, but it looks like I will be subtracting from the wais, and adding a wedge lower down. How low?...down int to curve is the place that makes sense. It is where the problem is.

[5/12/02 21:51:38] peggysagers: We are not good measurers

[5/12/02 21:53:02] nanflan: I was just going to make that comment, I have noticed that people will go thru a lot to avoid measuring.

[5/12/02 21:52:17] peggysagers: Ann, sorry what is the question?

[5/12/02 21:53:02] Ann: short depth, and long length, again, sorry

[5/12/02 21:49:17] Karla: Peggy - I have trouble deciding where to measure the hip. Do you recommend the fullest point looking from the side of the figure? I sew for someone whose largest measurement is at the top of her thigh. Where do I measure her hips?

[5/12/02 21:50:21] peggysagers: Use the larger number at the thighs, but put it at the hipline, she will have to have extra fullness at the hips so that the pants don't curve in at her hips and then go back out.

[5/12/02 21:52:24] RowenaB: Having problems with dropping out of the chat sorry. Anyway Peggy, do you look at certain parts of the fit before moving on to others. ie crotch depth first etc

[5/12/02 21:53:14] Karla: good question, Rowena. What's first?

[5/12/02 21:53:18] peggysagers: I always look at crotch depth first, then circumference and then crotch length.

[5/12/02 21:53:54] peggysagers: But then when you go back to your pattern, do the patten changes in the same way, becuase one change can affect the other

[5/12/02 21:54:08] Debbie: So now that we have the crothc depth where do we compare that number to pattern measurement

[5/12/02 21:53:02] Debbie: And for crotch length would you suggest tying 1/4 inch elastic around your waist and running a tape measure from the elastic at your back through your legs and to the elastic at your front

[5/12/02 21:55:48] peggysagers: The pattern has a crotch depth line, measure from there to the waist, at the center not the side;

[5/12/02 21:53:43] Rennie2: I'm getting 'challenged' by all the different fabrics in today's market, especially those with Lycra. It seems to me you cannot just get a pattern to fit and then sew it up in different fabrics without having to tweak the fit each time a different fabric is used. This has been something I've been reluctant to accept. Fitting is an evergoing process.

[5/12/02 21:54:13] peggysagers: I don't ageee

[5/12/02 21:54:52] peggysagers: The only thing that might change is circumference because of the fabrics. The crotch depth and length would have no reason to change.

[5/12/02 21:56:30] peggysagers: crotch length is the one most sewers dont understand.

[5/12/02 21:56:53] peggysagers: How to change it with the dart, very few sewers I have met have ever even heard of that

[5/12/02 21:57:52] peggysagers: When a skirt is made into a pair of pants, the center back seam is cut horizontally and opened for the pant to go around your rear. All you are doing is tweaking that amount

[5/12/02 21:57:57] Rennie2: What about some fabrics 'seating out'. How do you recommend stabilizing the crotch.

[5/12/02 21:58:06] ElonaMasson: The crotch depth measurement taken at the side seam is something that has always flummoxed me: If you measure the "side crotch" on a very fluffy lady. Because of her curves, wouldn't this measurement be considerably longer than the one you take on the pattern piece, measuring at the center?

[5/12/02 21:58:31] peggysagers: If you notice, the center back seam is always off grain and so is the waist and that is because the center back seam has been opened

[5/12/02 21:59:00] sewrunrig: Hi everyone; sorry to join in late. I have a lot of fullness both in my abdomen and bottom area. How do I find my hipline and the correct hipline on the pattern? When I try to measure my fullest part, it's not seven or nine inches from my waist.

[5/12/02 21:59:11] Debbie: Peggy do you patterns address using the dart for changing the crotch length

[5/12/02 21:59:36] peggysagers: that all depends on how you measure. Measurements are only a guide, that's why they have drape, so that the numbers can be plugged in and then fine tuned by draping.

[5/12/02 22:00:31] peggysagers: I do use fusible interfacing on fabrics that I feel will shift at the butt and the knees, I fuse the whole pant, Raw silk is a good example. I always fuse that.

[5/12/02 22:02:26] peggysagers: crotch depth should be adjusted on the patten by taking a tuck in the pattern or by making the pattern longer. The crotch depth is the same in the front and the back. It is just where the pant goes between the legs. It cannot be different in the back than in the front

[5/12/02 22:01:16] mudcat: Do you have plans to develop more pants patterns (there is only one on your Web site, as near as I can tell)?

[5/12/02 22:02:58] peggysagers: No more pant pattens for while. Pants are so basic/ I would rather teach people how to make the changes to the basic than provide a new pattern for a basic change

[5/12/02 22:04:01] peggysagers: I did do a video on pants and we recommend that to clearly understand them. We have too many other fun patterns that we want to do. Pants are critical, but you have to know that more styling won't give you great fit.

[5/12/02 22:04:09] peggysagers: We get lots of great feedback on our pants, just change to darted from pleated

[5/12/02 22:04:20] mudcat: How about a fitting book by you?

[5/12/02 22:05:11] peggysagers: In the making, sorta, I think what is more important is draping, women don't know what's wrong when it is staring them in the face because they don't know drape.

[5/12/02 22:05:38] mudcat: That's a good idea (I don't care for pleats).

[5/12/02 22:05:41] Ann: Peggy, are all your great tips like the help that you are giving us now in your

[5/12/02 22:05:54] Ann: sorry, Pant pattern?

[5/12/02 22:06:34] peggysagers: within the next few weeks, we willhave on our website how to change a pleated pant to a darted.

[5/12/02 22:07:23] peggysagers: Our patterns include lots of great tips, but keep in mind you only have so much space. Our goal is to make you succesful and we do that the best we can. We cannot be succesful if you are not succesful

[5/12/02 22:07:37] Deepika: Peggy you have provided extensive help tonight in the chat. This archive will be really helpful to all the sewers.

[5/12/02 22:07:42] peggysagers: Great sewing of a fly front also

[5/12/02 22:08:07] peggysagers: I must head, I promised my family dessert

[5/12/02 22:08:34] Amanda: This has been really informative! Thank you so much.

[5/12/02 22:08:34] Deepika: Thanks so much for your time Peggy!

[5/12/02 22:08:35] Ann: Thank you so much Peggy, and always to Deepika for hosting thses great chats

[5/12/02 22:08:34] Karla: Peggy - thank you for all your help

[5/12/02 22:08:35] mudcat: Thanks Peggy

[5/12/02 22:08:38] Rennie2: Thanks Peggy!

[5/12/02 22:08:50] nanflan: Peggy, I agree with Deepika. You have done a great job explaining it in words. I'm sure it would be easier for you to demo than write.

[5/12/02 22:09:14] peggysagers: if you will learn the difference between crotch length and depth it will be so helpful

[5/12/02 22:09:20] mudcat: Teri, You can check her Web site for seminars.

[5/12/02 22:09:30] peggysagers: I would love to have had a pen and a wipe boad

[5/12/02 22:09:32] Deepika: http://www.silhouettepatterns.com

[5/12/02 22:09:33] LindaE: good night ladies hope you all had a great mothers days ( those mothers and the others had a good evening )

[5/12/02 22:09:38] mudcat: http://www.silhouettepatterns.com

[5/12/02 22:09:39] nanflan: Good bye all, Great chat!!

[5/12/02 22:10:50] sewrunrig: I hope everyone had/has a wonderful Mother's Day. Thanks to Peggy and especially to Deepika for setting up such an interesting chat. I know we will all learn a lot from the chat reading the transcript. Bye.