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Member since 10/27/05
Posts: 5976
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Posted on: 4/8/06 11:41 PM ET
OK..............shoulder darts must be there......somewhere.......but they're taken out somehow. Anyone have any experience with having to use shoulder darts on a man's shirt pattern to get it to fit? I'm trying to fit DS with a lounge top (no yoke) with dropped shoulders and it just isn't working out. "Seems" as if he "needs" back shoulder darts so the shoulders will line up and back hangs straight. The pattern grainline is not his grainline. I think that's called "shaping." Commercial patterns and drafts all fit the same way. They all need altered. The front is another story..............will talk about that later on.

Nothing in RTW fits him, so I can't compare.

I guess he has what is called an athletic build, (inverted triangle), 5' 4 1/4", 150 lbs. broad shoulders (18"), chest (40 1/2"), back length (19"), front length, (15 1/2"), neck (16 7/8"), neck width, (5 3/4"), shoulder length, (6 1/8"), hip, (39"), with a sway back (I think) which gives him a little bit of a belly. It isn't a washboard belly, but isn't really large, either.

A round back alteration isn't what he needs, I don't think, because it would kick the back neck up into his hair and make the shoulder line worse than it is now. It also looks like he has high shoulder blades but very flat on the sides of those blades..............darting seems to help with that. That flatness is causing the shoulder/back problem, I suspect. I want to eliminate the darting if possible, so when I finally make him a shirt, I'll know how to do it.







-- Edited on 4/9/06 0:14 AM --
  
Member since 4/11/02
Posts: 10809
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Posted on: 4/9/06 1:10 AM ET
Back shoulder darts that aren't sewn as such are usually rotated into the armhole or into the yoke seam if there is a yoke.

Does your DH have pronounced square or sloping shoulders? Where are the wrinkles pointing to? Can you post a pic?
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"I base my fashion sense on what doesn't itch." — Gilda Radner
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Member since 10/27/05
Posts: 5976
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Posted on: 4/9/06 10:52 PM ET
In reply to Debbie Cook
I haven't gotten a camera, yet. Have been planning on doing that, but something else has gotten in the way............I will though, and soon, I hope. It would make life easier. Till then, I can't post a pic.

Them thar pointing wrinkles, aha, which end? Just kidding! It's difficult because I've made several changes that haven't worked. Right now, sometime tomorrow evening, I hope, I'm going to cut out another muslin. I added 1/2" to each side of center front and back (totaling 2" all the way around). Didn't know how else to just add to the very high upper chest and back area and shoulders. Hopefully, this will put his neck/shoulder where it should be, but then it also added 2" across his chest which he doesn't need. I have to remove that 2", but don't know how. Then the slope of the shoulder needs addressed. Yes, I think he has somewhat sloping shoulders, however, pinching out that outside shoulder edge didn't work. He has the XL neck and shoulder numbers, but the M chest size. I'm using a size M tomorrow. I started out with a medium and switched to a large and now I'm back to the medium.

Looking at the previous muslin from the side view it looks as if he has a gap along the armscye at shoulder blade level. I could probably fit my fist in there. So, I pinched out the shoulder edge to eliminate that gap but then it distorted the neck. I'll post as soon as I get this new muslin made up. I do think the addition to the centers is part of the solution.

When I said the pattern grainline isn't my son's grainline, picture this. When I lay the tissue on his shoulder (both front and back) the tissue doesn't hang straight, but at an angle. First thought I had was.......aha......sloping shoulders, but taking it out at the shoulder edge didn't work. So then, I decided to add to the neck/shoulder 1/2" which dropped that area down (kinda like a reverse sloping shoulder adjustment). Clear as mud!!! It did hang straighter, but something was still wrong.gggrrrrh I've been on a merry go round.

Thank you Debbie. I'll post as soon as I get the muslin made up.

  
Member since 10/27/05
Posts: 5976
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Posted on: 4/10/06 0:25 AM ET
Debbie Cook,

Just remembered something. Even when I draped a muslin on his back, the gap in the armscye was still there (flat sides of shoulder blades?) That's when I put the dart in the shoulder and the armscye gap disappeared. It then seemed to hang straight, also. The front was not attached at the time. On shirts with yokes, the yoke is straight across until that flat area of the side shoulder blade. Then it wrinkles (vertically/diagonally) pointing to the armscye. He's not here now so I can't be real sure about where it points.

The front is another story.............lines not horizontal. They start to slant downward starting at the center front neck all the way over across to armscye and down (when I draped fabric). Then the rest of the length droops under the arm (the muslin pattern, not the drape) and gathers in the center front in folds. Sure sounds like a sloping shoulder, (it still might be partly), but he needs more room across the center front right at neck and across to shoulder edge. That much I've determined.

I've probably given too much info at once...................it can confuse. I'm sorry if I did that. Just wish I could be brief in my descriptions, but I don't know how to do that.

  
Member since 10/27/05
Posts: 5976
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Posted on: 4/18/06 1:02 PM ET
Didn't get to cut out another muslin last week as hoped.

Since my last post I've done a lot of thinking which resulted in questions. The most critical one is:

How do I get the pattern grainline to match my DS's body grainline? When I lay the grided fabric on the front of his body, the vertical line is ok (on grain) but the horizontal grainline is off...............it looks like it hikes up in the center front and down at sides (not the result of sloping shoulders), but a result of trying to lay a two dimensional piece of fabric on a 3 dimensional body, plus there's a problem in the neck/shoulder area. If I keep my finger on his shoulder edge and pivot the neck/shoulder down in front, then the grainline is on horizontally, but off vertically. The bottom center front at hemline opens up (spreads) requiring me to add fabric to get it to reach his center front at hemline, and, of course, that addition of fabric is tapered on up to the CF neckline. That's ok so far, but it's throwing off the side now, requiring me to completely redraw it which I don't know how to do.

Men's front shoulders don't have darts.................BUT............if I dart the shoulder it corrects the distortion of the horizontal line leaving the vertical intact. How do I rotate out this huge shoulder dart without distorting the line of the pattern?

Any help sure would be appreciated. Someone, somewhere out there has had to experience this same problem. I can't be the only one. I know when all is said and done, the answer is going to be a simple one! It just can't be this complicated. I'm so frustrated. HELP!




-- Edited on 4/18/06 5:36 PM --
  
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