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I need to vent (Moderated by Deepika, EleanorSews)
Posted on: 6/30/16 8:55 PM ET
I am completely fed up with the lawyers my ex and I hired.
We started a Collaborative Divorce process for our divorce in March 2015. We were told it was faster and less stressful than going to court. Yeah right, 17 months later and no separation agreement in place. No protection of my home from my ex's creditors (the house is in both our names).
Collaboration did not work and we were supposed to start Mediation Arbitration in June 2015 a year ago. But that got delayed until September 2015.
Once we started Mediation we were given end dates of November 2015, Jan 2016, Feb 2016 up to April 2016 at which point our lawyers stopped giving either of us an end date.
It is now the end of June 2016. My lawyer told me last night that she would finally have a separation agreement to me this afternoon or evening. It is 5:45 pm and no document yet. She also informed me that due to my ex's lawyer going on holidays, not to expect anything to be finalized until the end of July.
I am well and truly fed up with the delays.
Oh and it will be another 6-8 weeks after the end of July meeting before the divorce will be completed. As the lawyers have not been accurate in any of the timelines they have given us to date, I doubt that the divorce will happen on time either.
I checked with the law society and if I place a complaint now, it will just further delay the process of getting an agreement in place.
I am peeved that there is no accountability on the side of the legal professionals. My lawyer sat on a document for 12 days, she 'thought' she had sent it. If I hadn't sent a email demanding to know why nothing was happening, she would still be sitting on it. That 12 day delay, meant it was not settled this month.
-- Edited on 6/30/16 at 9:18 PM --
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We started a Collaborative Divorce process for our divorce in March 2015. We were told it was faster and less stressful than going to court. Yeah right, 17 months later and no separation agreement in place. No protection of my home from my ex's creditors (the house is in both our names).
Collaboration did not work and we were supposed to start Mediation Arbitration in June 2015 a year ago. But that got delayed until September 2015.
Once we started Mediation we were given end dates of November 2015, Jan 2016, Feb 2016 up to April 2016 at which point our lawyers stopped giving either of us an end date.
It is now the end of June 2016. My lawyer told me last night that she would finally have a separation agreement to me this afternoon or evening. It is 5:45 pm and no document yet. She also informed me that due to my ex's lawyer going on holidays, not to expect anything to be finalized until the end of July.
I am well and truly fed up with the delays.
Oh and it will be another 6-8 weeks after the end of July meeting before the divorce will be completed. As the lawyers have not been accurate in any of the timelines they have given us to date, I doubt that the divorce will happen on time either.
I checked with the law society and if I place a complaint now, it will just further delay the process of getting an agreement in place.
I am peeved that there is no accountability on the side of the legal professionals. My lawyer sat on a document for 12 days, she 'thought' she had sent it. If I hadn't sent a email demanding to know why nothing was happening, she would still be sitting on it. That 12 day delay, meant it was not settled this month.
-- Edited on 6/30/16 at 9:18 PM --
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Living life to the fullest.
Who knew being a Granny was the best thing ever?
Who knew being a Granny was the best thing ever?
Posted on: 6/30/16 9:11 PM ET
In reply to Michelle T
Lots of hugs.
Personally, I think lawyers ought to come with the sort of completion penalties they often write into construction contracts... "If X is not done by Y date, the lawyer/construction co. is liable for penalties of $Z/day." Though I'm sure they'd prefer the other type of completion contract... "If you get X done before Y date, you get an early completion bonus of $Z for each day early."
(I am amazed how highway projects in particular drag on and on and on around here... except for one a few years back that someone was smart enough to put in an early completion contract clause. That was a major repair the DOT thought would take 3 weeks, and the construction company got it done in less than a week by carefully planning and prepping the project before starting. Got an extra $1.5 million for that.)
Personally, I think lawyers ought to come with the sort of completion penalties they often write into construction contracts... "If X is not done by Y date, the lawyer/construction co. is liable for penalties of $Z/day." Though I'm sure they'd prefer the other type of completion contract... "If you get X done before Y date, you get an early completion bonus of $Z for each day early."
(I am amazed how highway projects in particular drag on and on and on around here... except for one a few years back that someone was smart enough to put in an early completion contract clause. That was a major repair the DOT thought would take 3 weeks, and the construction company got it done in less than a week by carefully planning and prepping the project before starting. Got an extra $1.5 million for that.)
Posted on: 6/30/16 9:36 PM ET
In reply to Michelle T
Wow, that's unreal!
We wanted to minimize sibling impact and went directly to mediation - got it done fast: 4 months stem to stern including 30 days of "resolution." But we did have to keep it on their minds and make some fast decisions.
Unless CA law is vastly different, I'd say they're stringing you on. If you filed first and your attorney has depleted her retainer, why not dump her, plead the court for cessation and start over? You guys probably know, by now, how it all should be divied up. Pay one lawyer to file and proceed, and another to handle the back end taxes & titles (separate motions in the US.) They don't even need to know each other as they'll be dealing with what's already on file with the court.
Just an idea...
Gene
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We wanted to minimize sibling impact and went directly to mediation - got it done fast: 4 months stem to stern including 30 days of "resolution." But we did have to keep it on their minds and make some fast decisions.
Unless CA law is vastly different, I'd say they're stringing you on. If you filed first and your attorney has depleted her retainer, why not dump her, plead the court for cessation and start over? You guys probably know, by now, how it all should be divied up. Pay one lawyer to file and proceed, and another to handle the back end taxes & titles (separate motions in the US.) They don't even need to know each other as they'll be dealing with what's already on file with the court.
Just an idea...
Gene
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If you're not ahead, you're behind!
Posted on: 6/30/16 10:25 PM ET
In reply to Michelle T
Divorce, changing your life, starting off in a collaborative spirit only to have it NOT:
Michelle, you deserve to feel more than fed up!! This is BS on the part of some incompetents. And it's YOUR life.
Hang in there, gal, vent as you need to and yeah, lawyers can be hell.
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Michelle, you deserve to feel more than fed up!! This is BS on the part of some incompetents. And it's YOUR life.
Hang in there, gal, vent as you need to and yeah, lawyers can be hell.
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Surviving is important but thriving is elegant.
Maya Angelou
Maya Angelou
Posted on: 7/1/16 8:23 AM ET
We always wished lawyer fees could be Reduced for every delay, but They are in control of legislatures and laws, so they protect their own. Language should be required in Minimal pages of plain English also, not Legalese, which could reduce paperwork by 3/4.
What really irks is criminals finally going to trial years late, evidence and witnesses lost, subjecting victims and families to more stress and costs. In obvious guilty cases, if jail was immediate with No appeals, there would not be a backup in court cases.
Any legal people here also get frustrated with the system never improving, despite all the advances in technology available?
-- Edited on 7/1/16 at 10:38 AM --
What really irks is criminals finally going to trial years late, evidence and witnesses lost, subjecting victims and families to more stress and costs. In obvious guilty cases, if jail was immediate with No appeals, there would not be a backup in court cases.
Any legal people here also get frustrated with the system never improving, despite all the advances in technology available?
-- Edited on 7/1/16 at 10:38 AM --
Posted on: 7/1/16 8:43 AM ET
Here are my thoughts:
1. OMG ! You have no idea how bad the legal system can REALLY get !
2. You should not be afraid to fire an attorney. SHE is incompetent--you don't have to feel any loyalty for her just because she is female !
3. What's your attorney's relationship with your husband?
4. Go to Legal Zoom, and get the template documents for settlement. Fill in the details, and take it to your ex. Tell him you will put his actions and those of his attorney on Facebook.
5. Get the h*()l out of that attorney's clutches NOW !
1. OMG ! You have no idea how bad the legal system can REALLY get !
2. You should not be afraid to fire an attorney. SHE is incompetent--you don't have to feel any loyalty for her just because she is female !
3. What's your attorney's relationship with your husband?
4. Go to Legal Zoom, and get the template documents for settlement. Fill in the details, and take it to your ex. Tell him you will put his actions and those of his attorney on Facebook.
5. Get the h*()l out of that attorney's clutches NOW !
Posted on: 7/1/16 9:07 AM ET
Not a lawyer, but have been there.
I know it doesn't help a bit right now, but you would have probably been ahead to go the traditional court route. Even with the backlogs it does give you ways to compel the other party, and even your own attorney, to get things done.
Don't dump your lawyer until you get a separation agreement, you want to at least have that if you decide to go another way. And honestly, if you're 6-8 weeks from actual divorce after the separation agreement goes into effect, and you're good with the terms, just do it.
Changing lawyers, or changing the process could mean redoing discovery etc, essentially starting over. Ugh.
I know it doesn't help a bit right now, but you would have probably been ahead to go the traditional court route. Even with the backlogs it does give you ways to compel the other party, and even your own attorney, to get things done.
Don't dump your lawyer until you get a separation agreement, you want to at least have that if you decide to go another way. And honestly, if you're 6-8 weeks from actual divorce after the separation agreement goes into effect, and you're good with the terms, just do it.
Changing lawyers, or changing the process could mean redoing discovery etc, essentially starting over. Ugh.
Posted on: 7/1/16 9:47 AM ET
In reply to Addierecoy
Aaahh...that's a good point! We filed our accounts & divisions in about 3 weeks and verification was pretty quick as there was little dissent.
Good luck, Michelle,
Gene
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Good luck, Michelle,
Gene
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If you're not ahead, you're behind!
Posted on: 7/1/16 11:12 PM ET
well since I've already "come out" on this site, I am a trial judge (not in Canada).
I believe that mediation and "collaborative divorce" can work very well if both parties are motivated to put their children first and resolve any other issues so they can move forward.
I also believe that mediation and a "collaborative" divorce are a disaster where there is a power differential between the parties; where one (or both) parties is/are not able to act in the children's best interests; and where one party wishes to punish the other. Spouses with few economic resources are at an extreme disadvantage against "lawyered up" spouses who have access to money and a good job.
I also believe that while many/most people are capable of being reasonable, some simply aren't and somebody (in our system, a judge) needs to tell them this is the way things are going to be.
As for your frustrations with your lawyer...remember that you are the customer. If you don't like the service you are getting shop around. I am always surprised that lawyers are not more customer-oriented, but I think this will change. There are too many lawyers, there must be some who understand better that they need to provide value for their clients.
Good luck to you and I'm sorry that this has dragged on so long. Doesn't make me proud of my profession.
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I believe that mediation and "collaborative divorce" can work very well if both parties are motivated to put their children first and resolve any other issues so they can move forward.
I also believe that mediation and a "collaborative" divorce are a disaster where there is a power differential between the parties; where one (or both) parties is/are not able to act in the children's best interests; and where one party wishes to punish the other. Spouses with few economic resources are at an extreme disadvantage against "lawyered up" spouses who have access to money and a good job.
I also believe that while many/most people are capable of being reasonable, some simply aren't and somebody (in our system, a judge) needs to tell them this is the way things are going to be.
As for your frustrations with your lawyer...remember that you are the customer. If you don't like the service you are getting shop around. I am always surprised that lawyers are not more customer-oriented, but I think this will change. There are too many lawyers, there must be some who understand better that they need to provide value for their clients.
Good luck to you and I'm sorry that this has dragged on so long. Doesn't make me proud of my profession.
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Mostly Babylock: Ellegante, Crescendo, Evolution, Ovation. Plus a Sailrite LSZ-1
Posted on: 7/2/16 5:39 PM ET
In reply to allorache
Thank you for your comments Allorache.
You are correct that when there is a big power difference in a couple Collaborative or Mediation just does not work. My ex had the money and power in this process and many of his actions caused the delays. I was told that there were tools in the Mediation Arbitration process to compel and or fine him for delaying tactics. Unfortunately none have been applied and he has been rewarded for his actions (over $75,000 of his personal debt paid off).
Because I signed a legally binding Med/Arb contract, I cannot leave the process, or an agreement with be arbitrated without any input from me. As the entire process has been skewed to my ex, I do not trust that the Mediator/Arbitrator will act in a fair manner. As it is my ex has received over $140,000 cash from the family assets over and above what I have received.
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You are correct that when there is a big power difference in a couple Collaborative or Mediation just does not work. My ex had the money and power in this process and many of his actions caused the delays. I was told that there were tools in the Mediation Arbitration process to compel and or fine him for delaying tactics. Unfortunately none have been applied and he has been rewarded for his actions (over $75,000 of his personal debt paid off).
Because I signed a legally binding Med/Arb contract, I cannot leave the process, or an agreement with be arbitrated without any input from me. As the entire process has been skewed to my ex, I do not trust that the Mediator/Arbitrator will act in a fair manner. As it is my ex has received over $140,000 cash from the family assets over and above what I have received.
------
Living life to the fullest.
Who knew being a Granny was the best thing ever?
Who knew being a Granny was the best thing ever?
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