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What do you do? (Moderated by Deepika, EleanorSews)
Posted on: 11/30/18 1:49 PM ET
Going into our local big box store yesterday, we saw an older couple sitting on a bench on the inside, and we witnessed the man slapping the woman he was with, on the face, once. Then the man got up and rushed past us. The woman sat stony faced.
It did not appear that any help was needed for injury or safety but we asked a store employee what we should have/could have done. He said the staff could not interfere with domestic violence and that they would call the police.
DH and I later discussed what we might do in worsening situations and domestic or not. That including yelling to attract attention, pulling out the cell phone, offering help to the victim when it was safe, hope we would do more and fast if it were a child.
What else, I wonder?
I am still sorry that anyone has anything like that happening to them.
-- Edited on 11/30/18 at 1:50 PM --
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It did not appear that any help was needed for injury or safety but we asked a store employee what we should have/could have done. He said the staff could not interfere with domestic violence and that they would call the police.
DH and I later discussed what we might do in worsening situations and domestic or not. That including yelling to attract attention, pulling out the cell phone, offering help to the victim when it was safe, hope we would do more and fast if it were a child.
What else, I wonder?
I am still sorry that anyone has anything like that happening to them.
-- Edited on 11/30/18 at 1:50 PM --
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Surviving is important but thriving is elegant.
Maya Angelou
Maya Angelou
Posted on: 11/30/18 2:32 PM ET
In reply to Annie- oh
It's a real balancing act, one I don't feel I have the training and judgement to pull off safely and successfully. I also live where two men were stabbed to death defending a young lady from harassment on the light rail system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack) They acted when there was no police help available for several minutes (because they were on the train)
I suspect I'd probably go into my "dog fight busting up voice" without thinking: "Hyah! Outta here! Stop that right now!", unwise as that might be. "Here come the cops!" might be much more effective. The best choice is probably to dial 911. Dead or badly hurt rescuers don't do much good.
I think this would be a really good question to ask of your local police department. I could sure see this sort of discussion being a good one for a community meeting between law enforcement and concerned citizens, perhaps as a series of meetings or classes at the library.
I suspect I'd probably go into my "dog fight busting up voice" without thinking: "Hyah! Outta here! Stop that right now!", unwise as that might be. "Here come the cops!" might be much more effective. The best choice is probably to dial 911. Dead or badly hurt rescuers don't do much good.
I think this would be a really good question to ask of your local police department. I could sure see this sort of discussion being a good one for a community meeting between law enforcement and concerned citizens, perhaps as a series of meetings or classes at the library.
Posted on: 11/30/18 2:57 PM ET
They may not be able to interfere in the domestic assault - they could get injured themselves - but they can certainly offer support to the victim afterwards. I hate that she sat in silence afterwards.
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karen
Posted on: 11/30/18 2:57 PM ET
In reply to kayl
Dear KayL:
I get the sense that you are finding yourself in the same time warp as many of us here are--the place between individual independence and the accompanying sense of responsibility and personal courage-- and the place where so many younger generations are now. So much decision making has been allocated to government authorities and thus eliminating themselves from personal independence and responsibility. They don't make many guys like the two who were killed last year. Most people will dial 911 and move away from the scene. This leaves a huge lack in our sense of true community responsibility. For example: here in our rural state if a small community wants an indoor basketball court they build it themselves. They find the money, buy material or get it donated and then the local men build during the time of the year when there is not much ranch work. However, down in the bigger city now when a group of people came together to try to install an outdoor basketball court in a barren flat piece of ground already dedicated as park space the city and unions were terribly mean. They demanded 4 times the amount of cash it takes to build an outdoor basketball court and refused to let any member of the community dig, or level, or contribute any free labor to the community project. After awhile folks stop taking responsibility for anything outside of their own 4 walls.
I get the sense that you are finding yourself in the same time warp as many of us here are--the place between individual independence and the accompanying sense of responsibility and personal courage-- and the place where so many younger generations are now. So much decision making has been allocated to government authorities and thus eliminating themselves from personal independence and responsibility. They don't make many guys like the two who were killed last year. Most people will dial 911 and move away from the scene. This leaves a huge lack in our sense of true community responsibility. For example: here in our rural state if a small community wants an indoor basketball court they build it themselves. They find the money, buy material or get it donated and then the local men build during the time of the year when there is not much ranch work. However, down in the bigger city now when a group of people came together to try to install an outdoor basketball court in a barren flat piece of ground already dedicated as park space the city and unions were terribly mean. They demanded 4 times the amount of cash it takes to build an outdoor basketball court and refused to let any member of the community dig, or level, or contribute any free labor to the community project. After awhile folks stop taking responsibility for anything outside of their own 4 walls.
Posted on: 11/30/18 3:31 PM ET
When my stepmother hit my father in public we were very happy that a bystander called the police and stayed until they came.
Posted on: 11/30/18 3:37 PM ET
In reply to Annie- oh
I think you can always ask the person that happened to, if they are O.K.? I think that might be very common. If you want to butt in, and take your chances, I think that is what you do. And if you are really nice, and if you want offer to give them a ride home or something, (or call them a taxi) if it was a domestic kind of thing. And the other person left them stranded, with no car or something. Lots of people might do that, I don't know. If you want them in your car, and if you want to chance meeting the slapper, when you drop them off at their house. Of course if it was a random nut case, and they did that to someone they did not even know at all, then you probably could offer to report it someplace for them even, just so that random nut case (drunk, mentally ill ect.) person might be picked up and not be able to do it to anyone else, further down the block, to someone else they did not know either, that same day. But, those two might have actually been doing that kind of stuff to each other, and maybe even back forth, for years and years maybe also, And it might not even be the same one that does it to the other one, each time either. Or instigates it. You never know. The fact that the woman sat there stony faced, and did not instead, yell at him, hit back, or even re-act to it, or walk away at all, might make me think that maybe they do that kind of thing, all the time even. In that case, and since it was a slap, I would figure it was none of my business even, particular if the person that was slapped, told me to butt out., when I asked them personally if they were O.K. or not.
It was on the street. Sounds like no one was really seriously hurt. And they probably knew each other. But, you could ask her to see. Without you even doing that, I think no way for you to know. You can't control everyone, and make them act like you think maybe they should at all times, everyplace. I don't think some random store clerk is going to be an expert on something like that, and be able to come up with something to do, any better than you would probably. I don't think stores like that kind of stuff happening in them at all though, and if nothing else, would probably ask the slappee to leave the store at least maybe. But, they were not inside. She probably was not a kidnapp victim or anything like that, or she would have been running away, in the other direction even. But, without asking, you don't know. Maybe she was even embarrassed that the guy was such as***le. You also can't control whom random people you don't know, always choose to hang out with, or have relationships with either. I think if someone is getting seriously beat up or might be killed, then you step in probably, if you want. But, if they are both just nasty, and prone to do that to each other, know they both might turn on you, instead even. So, I think be ready for that too even. So, I think you have to try to stop to think, if you inserting yourself that way, if physical between two people, that probably know each other and choose to be together someplace, if that would make anything better or not, or even much worse probably.
But I do think it's really stupid, to pull out phones and take photo's of something like that, ( a slap) if you are not even willing to talk to or ask the person whom was slapped, what was going on or such either. I think way too much phone pictures being taken everyplace and all over, by people willing to take photo's of stuff, but not actually do anything either. A sad commentary on social media probably.
It was on the street. Sounds like no one was really seriously hurt. And they probably knew each other. But, you could ask her to see. Without you even doing that, I think no way for you to know. You can't control everyone, and make them act like you think maybe they should at all times, everyplace. I don't think some random store clerk is going to be an expert on something like that, and be able to come up with something to do, any better than you would probably. I don't think stores like that kind of stuff happening in them at all though, and if nothing else, would probably ask the slappee to leave the store at least maybe. But, they were not inside. She probably was not a kidnapp victim or anything like that, or she would have been running away, in the other direction even. But, without asking, you don't know. Maybe she was even embarrassed that the guy was such as***le. You also can't control whom random people you don't know, always choose to hang out with, or have relationships with either. I think if someone is getting seriously beat up or might be killed, then you step in probably, if you want. But, if they are both just nasty, and prone to do that to each other, know they both might turn on you, instead even. So, I think be ready for that too even. So, I think you have to try to stop to think, if you inserting yourself that way, if physical between two people, that probably know each other and choose to be together someplace, if that would make anything better or not, or even much worse probably.
But I do think it's really stupid, to pull out phones and take photo's of something like that, ( a slap) if you are not even willing to talk to or ask the person whom was slapped, what was going on or such either. I think way too much phone pictures being taken everyplace and all over, by people willing to take photo's of stuff, but not actually do anything either. A sad commentary on social media probably.
Posted on: 11/30/18 3:42 PM ET
Message from the Moderator
Might we please remain on topic?
The question of intervention when you see something happening that harms or endangers another is different from community action groups working within communities and how those groups might be helped or hindered by their local municipal units.
The former concerns personal safety on two levels, the latter is a very different matter and can quickly devolve into hotbed issues that have political or other significant controversial implications.
With those thoughts in mind, it would be useful if on-going comments remain on-topic. Thank you.
-- Edited on 11/30/18 at 4:01 PM --
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Might we please remain on topic?
The question of intervention when you see something happening that harms or endangers another is different from community action groups working within communities and how those groups might be helped or hindered by their local municipal units.
The former concerns personal safety on two levels, the latter is a very different matter and can quickly devolve into hotbed issues that have political or other significant controversial implications.
With those thoughts in mind, it would be useful if on-going comments remain on-topic. Thank you.
-- Edited on 11/30/18 at 4:01 PM --
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"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." Dalai Lama
"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." Anais Nin
"Attitude is the difference between an adventure and an ordeal." unknown
“Be curious, not judgmental.” Ted Lasso
"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." Anais Nin
"Attitude is the difference between an adventure and an ordeal." unknown
“Be curious, not judgmental.” Ted Lasso
Posted on: 11/30/18 3:56 PM ET
I regret not calling the cops after seeing something. ...If he did that in public it may be much worse at home.
Posted on: 11/30/18 4:21 PM ET
I’m sorry that this happened. It’s terribly upsetting to witness violence between people. It’s happened to me a few times, but I can’t say what I would do next time. For sure, call 911 if possible. One time I witnessed 2 women, probably sisters or even twins (they looked alike), slap each other viciously while screaming and chasing each other through a crowded subway station. The situation was so bizarre that everyone just looked stunned, opened a path for them and let them go by. The women passed by in seconds and I did nothing, nor did anyone I could see. No cell phones in those days. I don’t know what I could have done but the whole scene is still crystal clear in my mind.
I think it does help to mentally rehearse some possibilities for helping. I have done that in case I am ever in a situation where a child is involved. I think this mental rehearsal might be helpful against the fear and shock that arises within us when we witness violence, even if we do not know exactly how we should or would respond.
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I think it does help to mentally rehearse some possibilities for helping. I have done that in case I am ever in a situation where a child is involved. I think this mental rehearsal might be helpful against the fear and shock that arises within us when we witness violence, even if we do not know exactly how we should or would respond.
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Posted on: 11/30/18 4:36 PM ET
Nearly 40 years ago, we lived in married student housing at a large university and the people upstairs had a little girl about two or three years old. The child used to scream bloody murder, and then cry piteously for hours. At the time, we didn't have children yet, so weren't really sure what was normal for children's crying. It was disturbing, but we thought maybe that was just how children behaved. When we'd see the little girl, her head would be shaved and she was dressed in an odd way, but we put it down to the fact that her parents were of an ethnic background which was very different from ours. We figured they had their own ways, which were different from ours, so we minded our own business. But I never got that little girl's heart rending cries out of my mind, and when I was a little older and wiser, I began to wonder if she was a victim of a some kind of ritual that would be acceptable in her parents' country but be considered abuse in the U.S. I wondered, and agonized, whether we should have called Child Protective Services. That was 1980, and it still haunts me! But then again, I don't know what the outcome would have been even if I had called someone.
-- Edited on 11/30/18 at 4:38 PM --
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-- Edited on 11/30/18 at 4:38 PM --
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