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Member since 8/24/02
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Posted on: 7/6/08 5:37 PM ET
I'm working with a muslin and found I need to make a 1/2" dart in the armhole, just about at the first notch. Would I also need to make this same dart in the sleeve? Or would it be taken up in fullness? My thinking is #2, as I tried rotating the dart in the sleeve to the elbow dart and the sleeve was tight across the front.

If I were to leave the sleeve cap alone, and decide later I wanted to make it flatter, as in a shirt sleeve, would I still have a lot of fullness in the cap, even though I flattened it? Or could I flatten it all the way?

Also, is there some standard as to how much bigger a sleeve should be over an armhole? My memory serves me at 1/4", but this sleeve is much bigger. Any ideas out there are most appreciated.
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Member since 7/30/02
Posts: 8991
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Posted on: 7/6/08 7:41 PM ET
I can't really comment much, since I don't draft patterns. But I wanted to share these links from Fashion Incubator (Kathleen Fasanella).
Sleeve Ease is Bogus
part 2

While what she says makes sense, I don't have the drafting knowledge or comfort to try that type of change yet.

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Member since 8/24/02
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Posted on: 7/6/08 9:38 PM ET
In reply to Miss Fairchild
Quote: Beth Pierce
I tried rotating the dart in the sleeve to the elbow dart and the sleeve was tight across the front.

I wouldn't rotate any sleeve cap alteration to the elbow dart. I don't have the technical words to explain it but basically they're not related to each other.

I have more than 1/4" ease in my sleeve caps, so whether it's too much length would depend on whether the sleeve fits you, and what fabric you're usuing. Wool & cotton manipulate better for easing than polyester or poly blends.
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Member since 8/24/02
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Posted on: 7/6/08 9:41 PM ET
In reply to AnneM
Hi Anne. Thanks for the links. Kathleen is one of my favorite people that I've seen once in a while here on PR and I didn't know she had a site. The info is worthwhile, and I've bookmarked it for future reference. However, I'm not trying to make my stripes match; I'm just fitting my muslin. I took my sleeve piece out to compare it with the one from my sloper that didn't have a dart in the armhole, and found that it was off in the cap; as a result of rotating the ''dart'' to the elbow. This was a visual clue that something was wrong. It was about 1'' too short on the back part of the sleeve cap. Duh!

I have a ''knobby'' shoulder, in that my shoulders roll forward a lot, and I am starting to get the ''light bulb going'' that I'll need the fullness there to hide the ''knob'' and to give my arm some movement. I'd still like to find out if there's any standard as to how much more a sleeve needs to be over the armhole. I might just recut another sleeve, and disregard the ''dart'' to see how it works. But there's a lot of fullness, compared to my armhole; about 2'' extra.

Thanks again!


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"Play the cards you are dealt, but choose who is sitting at the table"..AARP magazine

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Member since 4/11/02
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Posted on: 7/6/08 9:43 PM ET
In reply to Miss Fairchild
Quote: Beth Pierce
I'm working with a muslin and found I need to make a 1/2" dart in the armhole, just about at the first notch.

This is for the bust, right? IOW, you're darting the armhole so the bodice fits your bust better? Or are you darting the armhole for another reason?

If the sleeve fits you with 1/2" pinched out, you can take 1/4" off each underarm seam so it fits into the darted armhole.
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Member since 4/8/02
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Posted on: 7/6/08 9:52 PM ET
My theory is that in taking that little armhole dart, you're reducing the size of the armhole. If you slash the sleeve cap from the front almost to the back, you can overlap the sleeve parts at the front by 1/4 to 1/2 inch and slightly reduce the fullness so it matches the new armhole size. Since I consider myself a political moderate - always in the middle of the road (often with tire tracks on my back), I'd try a compromise reduction of 3/8".
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Member since 8/24/02
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Posted on: 7/7/08 8:30 AM ET
In reply to Debbie Cook
Hi Debbie. As always, I'm in deep humbleness whenever you and Karla answer my questions. You both are the Gurus of Fabric! Yes, I'm darting the armhole to fit my bust better. I think the whole problem is with my shoulders coming forward so much. I have just under 2'' of ease in the sleeve cap and I feel that's waaaay too much. I gave up that look when the 70's were finished.

I am going to try your suggestion of pinching out 1/2'', but taking 1/4'' off my underarm seam might affect my sleeve girth. But it has to come from somewhere, right? If you do one thing in one place, you have to balance it with another, right?
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"Play the cards you are dealt, but choose who is sitting at the table"..AARP magazine

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Member since 8/24/02
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Posted on: 7/7/08 8:49 AM ET
In reply to Karla Kizer
Karla, I think you're on to something. I agree, I am reducing the size of the armhole; that's why I have so much extra fabric in my sleeve cap.

What I saw from your suggestion was a flatter cap, which I think might be a problem, because the front armscye curve on the bodice is so sharp (it's a definite ''J'' shape). But you helped me find a solution. What I'm going to do is slash in four places on the sleeve cap, all between the front notch and the shoulder notch, maybe to the back notch. Then I'm going to overlap these a little, leaving about 1/2'' overall to ease in, as per Debbie. This way, the fullness is distributed evenly over the top of the cap and the cap's shape isn't changed. I think of it as being like a gaping neckline, but in the reverse.

I like your ''middle of the road'' personality, as I too am the same way, and those tire tracks can be a little painful at times.
------
"Play the cards you are dealt, but choose who is sitting at the table"..AARP magazine

SEE MY ETSY SHOP HERE: http://www.etsy.com/shop/AuntMaymesAttic
My blog: http://auntmaymesattic.wordpress.com/
  
Member since 2/27/08
Posts: 132
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Posted on: 7/7/08 2:44 PM ET
In reply to Miss Fairchild
Beth, It would be helpful to know the pattern you are working with. Also have you pinched this out on the front or the back? Armhole excess (or not lying flat like it should) in the front may mean you require more bust darting. Armhole excess in the back sometimes relates to a shoulder dart issue. Could be shoulder slope or excess length also. A picture would help. Sometimes the armhole is better evaluated with a sleeve stitched in place. I would not just pin out 1/2" without testing what it looks like with the sleeve in place.

On flattening a sleeve cap. Sleeve cap height relates to shoulder tip placement. One can affect the other, assuming that the cap height relates well to you body. Once again I would not play with this until I saw what it looked like on your body. A shirt sleeve looks pretty ugly placed at the shoulder tip. Just my opinion. Others may like the look.

There are some general rules when drafting. A shirt sleeve is generally 1:1 ratio and the easiest to sew. If you want a shirt sleeve and have limited drafting experience you might just want to start out with a shirt sleeve pattern. Tailored jackets can have 1"+. I've seen blouse and dress patterns anywhere somewhere in between.
-- Edited on 7/7/08 2:46 PM --
  
Member since 12/28/04
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Posted on: 7/7/08 4:06 PM ET
In reply to Miss Fairchild
This has nothing to do with the sleeve cap, but only to do with the fact that you need an fba. You can pin this and mark it on the muslin and rotated it to the side if you want. But, basically you need to do an fba on your pattern.
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